In this episode of the NCETM Maths Podcast, Jane Hawkins, the NCETM’s Assistant Director for Secondary, speaks to Geoff Barton, chair of the Oracy Education Commission. The conversation dives into the importance of oracy in the classroom, especially in mathematics, exploring how it can transform learning and teaching. They discuss the current state of oracy education, its potential to close the disadvantage attainment gap, and specific recommendations for embedding oracy into professional development for teachers. Geoff references valuable insights and case studies, including contributions from experts such as Tim Oates and David Thomas, as well as practical examples from schools successfully implementing oracy strategies.

A transcript (PDF) of this episode is available to download.

audio file here

Show notes
Taking part in the discussion:

• Geoff Barton, Chair of the Oracy Education Commission


• Jane Hawkins, Assistant Director for Secondary Mathematics, NCETM


• Julia Thomson, Senior Communications and Marketing Manager, NCETM.

Episode chapters

• 00:00 Introduction to the NCETM Maths Podcast


• 01:22 Meet Jane Hawkins and Geoff Barton


• 01:50 The importance of oracy in education


• 03:19 Disciplinary oracy in mathematics


• 04:17 Revelations about oracy from maths


• 06:49 Challenges and solutions in teaching maths


• 12:13 The role of teachers in oracy-rich classrooms


• 15:04 The impact of oracy on student behaviour and engagement


• 19:53 Assessment and the future of oracy


• 27:48 Oracy and disadvantaged pupils


• 36:46 Teacher professional development in oracy


• 49:46 Conclusion and further resources.

Useful links

• Oracy Education Commission report – We need to talk (October 2024)


• The Commission Conversations – Tim Oates


• The Commission Conversations – David Thomas


• Discover more from the Commission Conversations podcast archive


• NCETM feature: We need to talk (about maths) (February 2025)


• Maths Hubs Research and Innovation Work Groups


• Bullock Report: A Language for Life (HMSO, 1975)


• EEF Secondary Maths Practice Review (June 2024)


• The NCETM Maths Podcast – Oracy in the maths classroom


• NCETM: The role of oracy in the context of teaching for mastery


• All-Party Parliamentary Group Report, Speak for Change


• Voice 21 Oracy Framework


• TES article: Neil Mercer: Oracy is still not properly understood (May 2025)


• Explore previous episodes of the NCETM podcast in our archive.