This episode is a little different.

Instead of talking with a Chief Creative Officer or a Chief Strategy Officer about a recent ad campaign, I sit down with Rebecca Winthrop, senior fellow at The Brookings Institution and co-author of The Disengaged Teen.

Together, we dive into the insights that emerged from her research with over 60,000 students, 25,000 teachers, and 6,000 parents, and we explore what it takes to really engage young people in today’s tech-driven world.

Rebecca’s findings around engagement are fascinating and we talk about different modes of learning (passenger mode vs. resistor mode vs. explorer mode) and the surprising overlaps between the world of branding and the world of education.

In both worlds, you’re dealing with a rich combination of attention, inertia, distraction, and indifference. And in both cases, real engagement only happens when the people you’re talking to connect the experience you’ve created to something meaningful in their own lives.

Some of my favorite aha moments from our conversation include:

• What kids are neurobiologically primed to do in adolescence and the implications for designing more engaging experiences
• The Mattel-OpenAI partnership and why Rebecca is both excited and concerned about its implications 
• How repetition and nagging can often shut down executive function in teens (and how brands might accidentally be doing the same thing with their messaging)
• What Minecraft can teach us about learning, rewards, motivation, and flow
• How working for the Fish and Wildlife Department in her 20s led Rebecca to some valuable life lessons about FIO (Figure It Out) jobs 
• Why educational innovation starts with rethinking how we measure progress and what that also means for brand strategy

Show Notes:

Below are links to inspiring ideas that came up during our conversation.

Books:

The Disengaged Teen by Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson

If I Built a School by Chris Van Dusen

Lies My Teacher Told Me by James W. Lowen

Six of Crows (Crooked Kingdom) by Leigh Bardug

Products

Lego

Clixo Toys

Innovative Alt Education Schools

Big Picture Learning

Templeton Academy

Alpha Schools