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What Not to Wear
Update: 2024-11-22
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Today on the pod, Lauren is joined by TikTok’s favorite personal stylist, Allison Bornstein. They discuss the nuts and bolts of her growing business, her book, the power of the Three-Word Method, and why everyone has a closet full of clothes and nothing to wear. Plus, Lauren checks in on Condé and Kering.
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Transcript
00:00:00
- Hi, I'm Lauren Sherman, host of Fashion People.
00:00:04
Have you checked out Magnet?
00:00:05
There are new for some fashion, bringing world-class content programs and live events that do more than just influence the industry.
00:00:13
They propel it forward with practical insights and creative inspiration.
00:00:18
Fashion is my world, so I'm closely watching the shifts at the intersection of fashion and technology with mounting pressures and intense competition.
00:00:26
The industry is reaching a turning point, a tech-driven strategy is essential.
00:00:32
That's why Magnet in partnership with the Interline has launched a crucial new report on fashion and technology in 2025.
00:00:40
It's filled with insights into how digital tools are reshaping the landscape, empowering everyone from independent designers to industry leaders to drive impactful change.
00:00:51
Want to stay ahead?
00:00:52
Download the report now at magnetgroup.com.
00:00:56
That's mmgnetgroup.com, and dive into the future of fashion and tech.
00:01:03
Hey, it's Lauren Sherman, Fashion Correspondent at Puck and Host of Fashion People.
00:01:08
I, myself, am a big podcast listener and I tend to run out of episodes during the holidays because so many shows go on hiatus.
00:01:16
Well, this year I'm personally ensuring this doesn't happen to you by releasing episodes of Fashion People all season long, right on time with some special treats along the way.
00:01:26
Enjoy!
00:01:27
(upbeat music)
00:01:29
Hello and welcome to Fashion People.
00:01:34
I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty, Memo Line Sheep, and today with me on the show is the internet's favorite personal stylist, Allison Borenstein.
00:01:45
We're talking the art and business of getting dressed.
00:01:49
Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck where I send an email three times a week called Line Sheep.
00:02:00
If you're a fashion person, you get that reference.
00:02:03
It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries.
00:02:08
Line Sheep is scoopy, analytical, and above all, fun.
00:02:11
Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics,
00:02:22
finance, the art world, and much more.
00:02:25
If you're interested, listeners of Fashion People get a discount.
00:02:28
Just go to puck.news/fashionpeople to join Puck or start a free trial.
00:02:34
Now let's get started with the show.
00:02:35
Hope you're having a great week.
00:02:39
It's been a busy one in Los Angeles on the back of the Governor's Awards.
00:02:43
There were so many events and dinners and parties and launches seemingly all at the chateau.
00:02:49
I was supposed to go to so much that I didn't end up going to for a million reasons, but I did hit up a sub-stack drinks thing at L&E Oyster.
00:02:57
Silver Lake is a super nice, great fries.
00:03:02
Some of the top fries in Los Angeles, although that list is quite short.
00:03:06
So take it for what you will.
00:03:10
But it was fun and interesting.
00:03:13
As of right now, I am also going to try to make it to the Nike Sakai launch downtown.
00:03:20
But I don't know if I'm going to make it.
00:03:22
I have a stacked schedule on Thursday night.
00:03:26
And I'm just reminding myself that in Los Angeles, you really can only do two meetings a day.
00:03:31
Sometimes I schedule four or five and it's just stupid.
00:03:35
So we'll see.
00:03:36
If I don't make it, sure, it'll be great.
00:03:39
Love Nike, love Sakai, love the combo.
00:03:41
I would really just focus on reporting this week, got on calls and met with people all week long.
00:03:47
In line sheet, my partner in beauty reporting, Rachel Strugatz has a huge scoop about an executive change at Stay Lauder.
00:03:58
You should read about it on line sheet.
00:04:00
But DesiM CEO is leaving the business.
00:04:03
And I don't know if anyone has followed this DesiM saga, but Rachel's always saying that like, there aren't as many interesting characters in beauty as they're on fashion.
00:04:14
I think she's proven herself wrong many, many times.
00:04:18
But the DesiM story of the last 10 years, their rise, the what happened to the co-founder.
00:04:25
It's a wild, a wild ride and documents it meticulously in this piece.
00:04:32
So you should check it out.
00:04:33
I was on the Kondinast beat this week.
00:04:38
I can't quit Kondinast or you won't let me.
00:04:40
That's essentially the deal.
00:04:43
But you should check it out.
00:04:44
It's about their kind of general global business issues, but also what's been happening in China.
00:04:50
And really interesting thing that I think I knew already, but was reminded of this week is that in China, GQ was actually the biggest brand and was a huge revenue driver for them.
00:05:02
At one point, it was making $150 million a year.
00:05:05
And in revenue, I don't think it's making that now since they haven't been able to publish it for several months.
00:05:11
But you can check that out.
00:05:13
And I have incremental updates throughout the week on Konday.
00:05:18
I also dug into sort of the state of caring and doing a little comparing contrast of caring versus LB image.
00:05:27
And another thing on Thursday that was really fun was I got a hold of the Marc Jacobs edited issue of Vogue.
00:05:34
And at the same time, I also got a hold of two very pristine copies of American Vogue from November 1999 and November 2000.
00:05:46
So I went through those and then I went through this one and looked at both and what's better, what's worse.
00:05:53
And what I would say, I mean, you should read this.
00:05:56
I think it's really interesting.
00:05:58
I think the magazine is at or now.
00:06:01
Like this issue was better than those two issues, maybe not every single time.
00:06:06
But this one in particular, you think that they were so perfect back then.
00:06:11
And they took a little more risk and it was a little looser.
00:06:14
But this issue's really good.
00:06:18
You should buy it.
00:06:19
Like I know you can read all this stuff online.
00:06:20
I'd read most of the articles online already.
00:06:23
Should buy the issue, it's really fabulous.
00:06:25
And it just made me feel good.
00:06:26
It was a nice, nice thing to have to do for work just to flip through these pages and analyze them.
00:06:33
Yeah, that's basically it.
00:06:35
I hope you enjoy this conversation with Alison.
00:06:39
I am interested in people who make businesses out of things that other people wouldn't be able to make businesses out of.
00:06:46
So she is, yes, a person who talks about trends and personal styling and is just sort of a character in the fashion world.
00:06:56
But she is also a very compelling entrepreneur.
00:06:59
So I really enjoyed speaking with her.
00:07:02
And I hope you enjoyed this.
00:07:03
[APPLAUSE]
00:07:06
Alison Bornstein, welcome to Fashion People.
00:07:09
Thank you for having me.
00:07:12
So it's very early.
00:07:13
We're both in California and it's 6.33 a.m.
00:07:17
Because we're both early risers.
00:07:19
And I thought this would be the most efficient way to do this.
00:07:22
So it's kind of two or I don't know.
00:07:25
Have you had breakfast yet?
00:07:26
Do you eat immediately when you wake up or-- I have not had breakfast yet.
00:07:31
I was waiting for this question.
00:07:32
I've had-- I'm having coffee.
00:07:34
But breakfast I think will be after.
00:07:36
What do you typically have for breakfast?
00:07:39
I'm like a Greek yogurt, kind of gal.
00:07:42
Like Greek yogurt with-- yeah, just with different fruit.
00:07:47
That's kind of my-- That's nice, okay.
00:07:49
That's very good.
00:07:51
Yeah.
00:07:51
I went through a phase years ago where I would like eat immediately when I woke up.
00:07:57
I actually did do.
00:07:58
I used to wake up starving.
00:07:59
There was like one person I'd wake up so hungry.
00:08:02
And now it's like I kind of not-- not I don't have to force myself.
00:08:05
But it's like I kind of have to be like, OK, let's do this before the day starts.
00:08:08
Yeah, I wonder if it's something-- do you have a different schedule here than you have in New York in terms of sleep?
00:08:15
And when you go to bed and your whole-- the way your day works?
00:08:19
Yeah.
00:08:20
Yeah.
00:08:21
I wake up way earlier here.
00:08:22
I feel like everything here is just like a lot slower.
00:08:26
So I don't know if that is anything to do with it.
00:08:28
I don't wake up like ravenous and crazy.
00:08:31
I wake up a little bit more relaxed, I think.
00:08:34
I don't know.
00:08:34
Do you like living in California?
00:08:37
I do.
00:08:38
I was just in New York for like 10 days.
00:08:41
And I've noticed that-- I've just noticed that generally that I don't eat as much here because I don't move around as much.
00:08:49
But also that when I would wake up in the morning there during fashion week, like I don't even think about it.
00:08:55
Because I'm eating meals so late at night that it would be crazy to have breakfast immediately.
00:09:00
But I did notice last week, even though I was like going out for pretty heavy dinners.
00:09:07
I was still really hungry in the morning I think because I was doing like 20,000 steps a day or whatever.
00:09:13
Whereas here, I technically went to bed at 10 last night but really like 8.30 I fell asleep on our couch.
00:09:22
Wow.
00:09:23
And then woke back up and like took my vitamins and all that stuff.
00:09:27
But yeah, I like living here a lot.
00:09:30
It feels like for me, it's a really good way to sort of ground myself.
00:09:36
And I don't know.
00:09:39
I for 10 years, I just spent as much time here as I could.
00:09:43
I had really no obligation or reason.
00:09:46
And then I just fell in love with it.
00:09:49
I just feel like it's the place that I'm meant to land when I land.
00:09:54
What's such a good feeling?
00:09:55
Yeah.
00:09:56
Whereas in New York, I feel very-- I love it and I'm really addicted to it.
00:10:01
Like last week, I was like, I don't-- we should live here.
00:10:04
It's so much life makes so much more sense here.
00:10:08
For the way we are, our personalities, like kind of people that I need to see and all that.
00:10:14
But the reality is like, I'm so stressed out a couple of times, I'm there.
00:10:21
That's no matter even if I'm living when we were living there, I was just constantly stressed.
00:10:27
And here, I don't feel that way.
00:10:28
How about you?
00:10:29
We moved around the same time, I think.
00:10:32
Yeah, it's been almost two years for me here, same with you.
00:10:36
I'm four, but whatever pandemic doesn't count.
00:10:39
Same as yeah, it doesn't count.
00:10:41
Yeah, I feel the same.
00:10:42
Being in New York, it feels so fun and exciting and every time I go, I'm like, oh, I love it.
00:10:47
But I feel like in New York, you can do so many things in a day to do, like, you could get 20 things done in a day.
00:10:55
So you're kind of forced to always be moving.
00:10:58
And here, you could do like two things in a day.
00:11:01
And that's just kind of, it like has to be OK.
00:11:03
And you have to prioritize what those things are.
00:11:08
One of my colleagues just message and said, should we do a dinner next week?
00:11:12
Because a bunch of people are going to be in town.
00:11:14
And my instinct is yes.
00:11:17
Because I want to do everything I can.
00:11:20
But my other instinct is I already have two things that I committed to that night.
00:11:25
I probably won't only go to one.
00:11:28
Like it's, it really makes you think about who do you want to see, who do you want to spend time with?
00:11:35
And you have to be so much more intentional with every single thing that you do, which is kind of nice.
00:11:40
Yes, totally.
00:11:41
It forces you to set some boundaries, which I don't have.
00:11:44
So it's great.
00:11:45
Same.
00:11:46
I mean, as we are aware, since it's 6.30 AM, and we were like, yes.
00:11:52
Right.
00:11:53
Let's do it.
00:11:53
Molly, my producer, I know is I'm like, 5.30.
00:11:57
That's great.
00:11:58
I could just get it out of the way.
00:12:00
And then I can do all my other stuff, always packing it in.
00:12:06
So how did you get here?
00:12:08
Tell me about you are a sort of an online phenomenon.
00:12:14
Phenomenon, phenomenon, I don't know.
00:12:17
But you have had an amazing ascendance in the last five years or so.
00:12:23
But that said, you've been working your butt off for years.
00:12:27
And how did you get to California?
00:12:30
Tell me a little bit about your career pre-being this wardrobe expert that everybody sort of goes to first when they need help.
00:12:41
OK, thank you.
00:12:43
I went to FIT before we're going to start from that far back.
00:12:46
I went to FIT.
00:12:48
I interned at Teen Vogue.
00:12:50
And I'm from Michigan.
00:12:51
So before interning, I had no experience.
00:12:55
I didn't know anything about fashion.
00:12:57
There wasn't like, obviously, there wasn't social media, but there just wasn't like access to the industry back then.
00:13:03
You know, I knew stuff from reality TV and from reading magazines.
00:13:08
But I really didn't understand what the jobs were and what the jobs even meant.
00:13:14
So I interned at Teen Vogue, and I went on set for a photo shoot.
00:13:19
And I saw the stylist.
00:13:20
And I was like, oh, my god, how cool.
00:13:23
Somebody's picking up the clothes.
00:13:25
That is so fun.
00:13:26
And so just from there, I would-- when I was in school, I would intern on the weekends.
00:13:30
I would assist stylist.
00:13:32
I would just do anything I could to be around photoshoots and around all the clothing.
00:13:38
It was just such a pleasure for me, which is so embarrassing.
00:13:41
I remember a stylist asked me pick something up from Marc Jacobs.
00:13:46
I literally just pick up a garment bag.
00:13:48
And I was like, oh, my god, OK, what do I wear?
00:13:50
And it's like, no, you're basically a messenger.
00:13:53
This isn't that cool.
00:13:54
But I was just so excited, because I never been around these types of clothes and these types of people.
00:13:59
And it was just-- it was really exciting.
00:14:01
So after I graduated, I assisted a stylist for almost six years.
00:14:06
And we traveled all the time.
00:14:08
And she did a lot of editorial.
00:14:10
She did a lot of celebrity styling.
00:14:12
And so I learned all of that.
00:14:14
Was it Julia Vambon?
00:14:16
Yeah, it was.
00:14:18
She's great.
00:14:19
Yeah, she's great.
00:14:20
And was that when she was doing in style as well?
00:14:23
That was after my time.
00:14:25
But we were doing a lot of the Harper's Bizarre covers.
00:14:29
Celebrity styling was kind of newer to me.
00:14:31
And she was working with some celebrity.
00:14:33
So that was really cool.
00:14:34
So I feel like I got to learn everything, which was really nice.
00:14:36
And I am somebody who really does like to learn and like to do a good job and kind of like perfect things.
00:14:43
So I really-- I enjoyed being her assistant a lot.
00:14:46
But when I went out to do my own things, I was just sort of-- I was trying to figure out like, what is it that you really love about this?
00:14:53
Like, do you like being on set?
00:14:55
Do you like working with the models and celebrities?
00:14:58
And I think the answer was like, kind of no.
00:15:01
I think what I really loved was-- I loved like sort of creating-- when we were for celebrity, sometimes she would let me help style for like the airport or like those moments that are in between moments.
00:15:15
And I realized that's what I really loved.
00:15:17
Like creating looks for every day that felt functional and felt like they were like expressing who the person was.
00:15:24
And even just kind of like, even just that little bit of like, it still has to look like it's this person's wardrobe, even if it's not like kind of those considerations too.
00:15:32
I found really interesting.
00:15:33
So that means like, you have to understand who the person is in order to dress them in a way that you think that they would dress themselves.
00:15:39
So I found that part really fascinating.
00:15:41
And then when I, yeah, went out on my own, I just started doing personal styling.
00:15:45
So going into people's wardrobes with the intention of helping them curate a wardrober, understand their wardrober and figure out like how to get dressed for every day.
00:15:55
Like, what are the things that you need?
00:15:57
What are the things that you don't need?
00:15:58
And like, really teaching my clients like how to put looks together.
00:16:02
And like, how to find their style.
00:16:04
So that hopefully they don't need me.
00:16:06
- When you first started doing that, like what were some of the big observations that you, that you called from like looking at people's wardrobes?
00:16:18
Like are there issues that are sort of universal in many people's closets of what they don't have enough of or what they have too much of?
00:16:29
And what were some of the things that you thought, 'cause you're very good at like pinpointing how to fix your wardrobe.
00:16:38
What were some of the things immediately that you were like, okay, this is an issue that like a lot of people have in terms of their inventory.
00:16:48
- Yeah, well, I think it's too much inventory a lot of times.
00:16:51
Like people are just sort of like gathering and collecting but then not really knowing what to do with it once they have it.
00:16:59
- I think now, you know, like with social media, it's so easy to see something and to buy it.
00:17:04
And so that's what we do.
00:17:06
So we have a lot of things, but then it's like again, like once the things are in our wardrobe, we're like, okay, we'll wait, like what do I do with this?
00:17:12
Like I got it, like I did that part, like that step one, but now like what do we do?
00:17:17
So I felt like there was a lot of, there was too many clothes or there are too many clothes in people's wardrobes and they have a lot of things that they obviously like because they purchased them,
00:17:27
but they're just not sure like what to do with it or even like to understand like why did I buy this?
00:17:32
Why do I like it?
00:17:33
Like what was my intention?
00:17:34
Like what was I trying to do by buying this?
00:17:36
Like how, you know, what was that choice?
00:17:39
So I try to help people understand that.
00:17:42
I feel there was a moment, like right after the pandemic, where I think people really paired down and were like obsessed with like this idea of like elevated essentials and only basics.
00:17:55
And so I think now post pandemic, like, you know, people are now wondering like how to get their personality back into their wardrobes, you know?
00:18:06
Like they, I feel like they edited so much or they, you know, kind of really bought into this idea of like quite luxury or like we just need the basics, we just need the essentials and I'll be like, okay, well now I look like everyone else.
00:18:17
And like how do I put my spin back on on these looks?
00:18:22
- Interesting.
00:18:23
So you were living in New York at the time when you started your business.
00:18:26
- Yes.
00:18:27
- What kinds of people were reaching out to you?
00:18:30
Was it like really high profile executives?
00:18:34
What was like the profile of the person who wanted your services?
00:18:39
- Not high profile.
00:18:40
Like really I don't like normal regular people.
00:18:45
I kept my prices pretty low at the beginning just because, I mean, because that's probably what I could charge but also because I was like, I want you, I want to go on all different people's wardrobes.
00:18:55
Like I want to really understand like everybody.
00:18:57
I think also working for Julia and working, you know, for like a stylist that did a lot of high profile editorial things.
00:19:05
I thought I was a good stylist.
00:19:07
Like I thought I understood a lot of different people and a lot of different bodies but like I didn't, you know?
00:19:12
'Cause there's not that much variety there.
00:19:14
So in starting my business, I was like, okay, I really want to like try to work with every kind of person.
00:19:19
So there were a lot of girls in the very beginning, a lot of girls that were like, wanted me to help them with like looks for a vacation, let's say, like that kind of thing,
00:19:31
you know, sort of special events but then it ended up being, like we would broaden it a little bit to be like, okay, like well then how can we also wear this dress that we're buying for vacation in real life in the summer?
00:19:41
Like that was the way that it started.
00:19:43
- How comfortable are people buying stuff?
00:19:46
Like when you-- - I was not very.
00:19:48
- So they're willing to just, if you say get this whole thing, they just will be like, sure, I'm just gonna buy it.
00:19:55
- Yeah, I think even like, you know, I work with people like all different budgets, all, you know, around the world.
00:20:02
Buying stuff is really easy, you know?
00:20:05
Like, and right, like if somebody says like, buy this, it's gonna change your life, it's gonna make you stylish.
00:20:12
Like this is the thing you need.
00:20:14
Like, yes, somebody will buy it.
00:20:15
But I really try not to, like I give suggestions, like very thoughtful suggestions of what I think somebody should add to their wardrobe.
00:20:22
But I'm very careful not to be like, okay, buy all of this because I want them to like, understand more, like why are they buying it?
00:20:30
You know, a lot of times like in the beginning of a session or a client will say like, I need tops.
00:20:34
And I'm like, okay, like first of all, that's so broad.
00:20:37
And so I really, like we kind of like take like the hour to style things, but to like figure out what kind of topic, what is it that you're needing from a top?
00:20:46
Like how can we find the top or the tops that you need?
00:20:49
Not just top, you know?
00:20:50
- Yeah.
00:20:51
- But yeah, people are so, it's really easy to buy clothing.
00:20:55
So I feel like that's almost the easy part and then the styling, it is the hard part, I think.
00:21:00
- It sounds like you, what you really should have gotten into green and psychology.
00:21:04
- Well, that's a huge part of it.
00:21:06
- Yeah, especially you, the way that you think about it and the sort of language you've put around building personal, your personal style or building your wardrobe.
00:21:17
When did you start doing more public facing online social media?
00:21:22
Like you've become very well known for your TikTok posts, which you do at such a good job with you're so straightforward and not annoying,
00:21:32
but like when did you start doing more like talking to the camera, but also just posting on social media and realizing that like part of your business was gonna be doing that stuff too.
00:21:46
- I started that in the pandemic and that was really hard for me.
00:21:51
I mean, obviously, it's not that natural to talk to the camera, but yeah, I had a really hard time and a lot of the feedback.
00:21:58
- And you're not like, sorry to interrupt you, but you're not a self-promoter, which is interesting because you're doing this very public thing,
00:22:08
but you're not like, it's not about you and so many people who are really public, the main reason they're doing this stuff is to promote themselves and yours is not like that,
00:22:21
so it's interesting because your personality, if I met you at a party, I wouldn't think oh, this person is like a TV personality.
00:22:28
You don't have that like, and not that that's bad, but like that thing, you don't seem like you are, you feel like you're the center of attention.
00:22:36
So it's interesting that you, I guess, because of the pandemic, did you feel like that sort of like propelled you to do that stuff?
00:22:44
- I did and also the first thing I ever did on camera was a YouTube video with my friend Violet and I really didn't want to do it, but she was like, listen,
00:22:55
like you're the teacher and I'm the main focus.
00:22:57
So like, that really helped me to sort of be like, okay, like if I'm doing my TikToks or my YouTube or my Instagram, like I'm sort of just like the teacher and using somebody else as an example.
00:23:10
So like I'm not centered sort of in the narrative.
00:23:12
It's like it's about this person and I'm just pointing different things out.
00:23:15
So that made it a lot more comfortable to me and then of course in the pandemic when I didn't have like a, you know, example to do it with, I would do things on myself, but by then I was a little bit more comfortable and again,
00:23:27
like, you know, not like by everything that I'm wearing, just sort of like using myself as an example.
00:23:32
I, this is really lame, but I do think of myself as like, obviously a fashion person, but I think of myself as more of like a teacher.
00:23:40
So I think that also makes it easier for me to put out the context.
00:23:43
Some look and like look, I'm like sharing something, I'm teaching something, it's not really about me.
00:23:48
- Yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned Violet who's an amazing makeup artist and has an awesome brand of, I have her, Beezoo, but I bought like millions of these.
00:23:58
- I love her brand, yes.
00:23:59
- And then our mutual friend Delphino, we like, I can get you some, I'm like, I just bought it all on, on shop, on Instagram shops or whatever.
00:24:07
But I think one thing that's, that people forget about a lot of jobs connected to fashion and beauty and Violet is the same.
00:24:16
A, there is a lot of instruction and B, these are service jobs.
00:24:20
So like, you are working for someone else and there is that element of their glamorous and they often require you to be public facing.
00:24:33
But at the same time, there is sort of, you're in the service of another person.
00:24:38
So it does feel like I'd say a lot of your videos that you do, it does feel like you are in the service of your viewers or your followers or whatever.
00:24:48
And it comes off in like a very clear way that I think is a big reason people responded to it.
00:24:54
What was an early video that you did that you realized, oh, I'm really onto something?
00:25:02
- Well, one that I, that like actually got like quote unquote viral was when I was talking about like this, like how to find your style using like this three word method.
00:25:11
And what was so good about that or great for me about that video is I was reading off of my book proposal.
00:25:17
- Hmm.
00:25:18
- Just like kind of literally had the book proposal up and was just reading it like into my TikTok and that one went really viral.
00:25:24
So I was like, okay, this is gonna be like, this is gonna be good for the book.
00:25:28
I think the three word method one was probably like the most viral.
00:25:31
And I was like, okay, like I can keep doing this.
00:25:33
It gave me confidence to like keep pushing on.
00:25:36
When you're doing like videos, you know, and social media, it's like sure like you get likes, but it's so, it is kind of isolating and it feels like you, the feedback feels,
00:25:46
I don't know.
00:25:48
There's something about it that you really are not sure what you're doing and you're not sure if people are responding, but that one, it really felt like people like, you know, we're making their own videos about the method and all of this was like, oh, okay, like this is catching on.
00:25:58
So it felt like that was good feedback for me.
00:26:01
- Let's talk about the three word method, which will be in your, in your obituary.
00:26:06
It's like the thing.
00:26:08
But how did you come up with it and explain the sort of strategy and the framing of it and then we can go from there 'cause we could talk about this for three hours, I think.
00:26:18
- Yeah.
00:26:19
So the way I came up with it is, you know, I was doing these one-on-one virtual consultations with people and what I realized is that the reason that people were buying a bunch of clothes and not knowing what to do with them is like,
00:26:32
they really didn't have like a clear vision for their style.
00:26:35
Like, you know, like if you're designing a house and you don't have like an inspiration or a vision board, it's like you're just buying a bunch of shit and like hoping that it works nicely together, but like it might not.
00:26:45
So I was noticing that and I was just trying, and also a lot of people felt like they didn't have style.
00:26:51
And, you know, they were buying clothes and making choices and I'm like, no, no, that is your style.
00:26:56
The choices you're making, like that's your style, that's your taste.
00:27:00
So it's, to me, it was just like an easy way to help somebody understand their personal style and to help elevate it.
00:27:07
So like the first word is the realistic where they find by looking in your wardrobe.
00:27:11
The second word is the aspirational word that you find by looking at what you're inspired by.
00:27:16
And then the third word is sort of the emotional word where you ask yourself, like how do I want to feel in my clothing?
00:27:21
And I found that like the recipe of those three words or those three categories could really kind of help frame things for people and give people some like necessary guidelines because fashion can feel like really confusing and there's so much and there's so many trends.
00:27:38
And if you have like a mantra or just like something to kind of like keep going back to, it allows you to weed out a lot of the things.
00:27:45
It allows you to like really hone in on your style and what you like.
00:27:49
- Do you tend to give people like a list of ideas to get them moving?
00:27:54
How do you get them to figure out what they are?
00:27:58
- In my book, I put like a whole like wheel in a list, but normally like when I'm doing styling sessions, like it's kind of fun, like we'll get on the call and a lot of times we'll be like I have my words, like I'll tell you right now.
00:28:09
And so they'll tell me there are three words at the beginning of the call.
00:28:11
And by the end we'll kind of like refine them or dig into them even deeper.
00:28:15
So like really figure out like, okay, if you're saying classic, like what does that really mean to you?
00:28:18
Like what is it about classic or like how would you describe classic?
00:28:22
So then we get them like really specific and that's fun.
00:28:25
So a lot of times people already kind of have an idea.
00:28:28
And sometimes it's really interesting because like some, you know, people will obviously use words like, you know, classic or chic or elevated.
00:28:36
But then I have people that use like celebrities like I was listening to your episode today and you were saying that like Sophia Coppola was one.
00:28:44
So like some people would say you Sophia Coppola is one of their words, you know?
00:28:48
Or like Manhattan is one of their words, which is really fun.
00:28:51
So I try not to give too many guidelines because I think like people can be really creative when just describe, especially like a non-fashion person to describe what they're liking.
00:29:00
Like it'll be really interesting 'cause it's like they're kind of pulling from like a different vocabulary.
00:29:07
I was trying to look at my texts from when I came up with my three and now I can't find them.
00:29:15
Well, definitely, I think it was like either masculine or sporty for one of them, maybe the middle one and then elegance for the last one.
00:29:27
But now I kind of think Sophia Coppola is a good one for me.
00:29:31
Isn't that a good word?
00:29:32
Like I feel like an every like 42 year old woman in the world.
00:29:37
I mean, it's an amazing word.
00:29:38
Or like a lot of times people, I think Delphine, our mutual has oceans as one of her words.
00:29:43
- Oh yeah.
00:29:44
I actually wanted to ask you about the Olsins and 'cause I was looking through some of your videos.
00:29:49
I mean, I love the role.
00:29:50
I know there are people who just listen to this podcast because I talk about the role a lot, which is hilarious to me.
00:29:56
Shout out Monica Padman who apparently is obsessed with the role and I think that's why she subscribed to the line sheet and also listens to this occasionally.
00:30:06
But I love the role and have a lot.
00:30:10
I'd say in the last few years, it's been the thing that I've bought the most of from, like especially post Phoebe.
00:30:18
But I don't like aspire to look like them.
00:30:22
I think they look awesome, but it's just not like, I don't, but Sophia, it's just, she always looks perfect.
00:30:31
To like it's really nice.
00:30:33
Yeah, she could walk in anywhere and it's like she looks like cool but appropriate.
00:30:38
Like it's always, yeah, she's just like so chic.
00:30:43
- Yeah, she is.
00:30:45
- Yeah, and I try to not just copy her.
00:30:49
And it's interesting that Delphine says the Olsins because Delphine is so, she's French preppy, but she's so preppy and traditional and their style is so loose.
00:31:01
And I get a lot of inspiration from them, especially the stuff that they wear that's not the role 'cause you're like, oh, they like that.
00:31:10
They like that weird sneaker, that's interesting.
00:31:13
But they are, I think because they're so diminutive, is that how you pronounce that word?
00:31:19
That like everything is just sort of overflowing.
00:31:23
As a person who is 5A, but Delphine is very, like her clothes are very like sharp and tight.
00:31:30
Not tight in like fitting, but just like it's very sharp.
00:31:35
Do you find that a lot of people, when you, when it comes to celebrities are just like famous people who people are inspired by, do a lot of people say the Olsins and like,
00:31:47
how much are people using the role as like a big inspiration when they are buying stuff, even if it's not in their budget?
00:31:55
- There's just certain kind of person that I work with that like loves Olsins and loves the role.
00:32:01
Like it's a, it's probably like a pretty small percentage, but like the people that love them and love the role, yeah, like that's what they want to look like.
00:32:10
I was thinking about this the other day because my friend was saying like, how did these two girls from Full House like create like such a luxury brand?
00:32:19
Like they, like they wanted me to explain this to them.
00:32:22
I was like, I grew up with them, like I'm a similar age to Marricaine naturally.
00:32:26
So like to me, my whole life, they were kind of like the pinnacle.
00:32:31
So I wonder now like if I would, if I would see their outfits now like in the past two years out of context, I wonder if I would have any kind of response to them, I feel like I might not.
00:32:41
I think it's just like growing up with them and like seeing all the different iterations of their style.
00:32:46
I'm like, oh, they always know what's cool.
00:32:48
So if they're wearing the role, like that's cool to me.
00:32:51
You know what I'm saying?
00:32:51
Like I feel like it's less, at least for me, less about like, 'cause even sometimes when I look at their current street sound, like I'm kind of trying dissect, like what is it that they're actually wearing?
00:33:00
It's not like the most interesting pieces, but it is like, I think they're such a good example of styling.
00:33:05
They're, it's like the way that they're putting things together is always so unique.
00:33:08
And like you see like the total, the full picture instead of just like pieces when they're, when they're dressed.
00:33:15
Which I think is really interesting.
00:33:17
Yeah, I've been talking about them with a lot of Europeans.
00:33:21
And because I think a lot of Europeans are like the stuff that they make is so basic.
00:33:27
Why do people spend ridiculous amounts of money on it?
00:33:31
And I had friends over the other night and I brought out three pairs of heels.
00:33:35
One, kitten, the almond toe pump they did.
00:33:39
One, I think it's called the Charlotte pump, which is like a mid height, but like two and a half inches.
00:33:45
It's not, I don't even think it's three very classic 80s pump.
00:33:50
And then a really high 90s, definitely like a product, a high for me is four inch, like I can barely walk in these.
00:33:57
I wore them in New York.
00:33:58
I don't know how I did survived.
00:34:00
Oh, actually I did walk barefoot on the cement a cup for like a few blocks because I was like, this is idiotic of me, like a square toe sway pump.
00:34:10
And the thing is that for they, it is their taste.
00:34:15
Like their taste is very American.
00:34:18
It has the same, like they were educated in the way we were all educated, which means like not.
00:34:24
Super bougie understanding of like, I don't know what their tutor was doing the onset or whatever.
00:34:32
But it's like the way Americans learn things, which is like not a huge focus on the arts.
00:34:37
And they clearly had an interest in it.
00:34:39
So really like did that for themselves.
00:34:43
And their proposals are very easy for Americans in particular.
00:34:49
But I also think a lot of Europeans like it and obviously other places in the world.
00:34:53
But it's been easy for Americans to like justify it because it is the best version of like the Teva St.
00:35:02
Black leather Teva Sandal they do.
00:35:05
I bought the doops or whatever they're called a couple of years ago.
00:35:08
And then I just got and they were like $120 or whatever.
00:35:11
I ended up not.
00:35:12
I never actually bought the Teva Sandals from them.
00:35:15
But I think like they did the best version of that in a way that feels they just know exact.
00:35:21
And like you're saying, you grew up with them and you have the same cultural references as them.
00:35:26
A lot of people feel that way.
00:35:28
And so they're able to take all this like extra curricular and all this education that they've clearly given themselves and apply it to something that like feels approachable to a lot of people.
00:35:42
I was before we got on the call.
00:35:43
I was looking at boots.
00:35:45
And also they have a new heel called the Lisa with two eyes.
00:35:49
And if they have it in a Dorset, they have it in a kitten heel.
00:35:52
They have it in a mid heel pump.
00:35:57
And I was like, oh, I definitely need to get one of these.
00:36:01
And there's no other shoe brand really that I'm like constantly buy.
00:36:07
Like I buy one or two pairs from them every season.
00:36:11
And so it is interesting how much they've influenced like a whole 15 year generation of women and to dress like how they get dressed every morning.
00:36:24
And none of that, I'd say probably 99.9% of them look nothing like the Olsen's look when they walk up the door.
00:36:31
Yeah, it's a different interpretations of what they're wearing or like picking out like what it is that you actually like about what they're wearing.
00:36:38
But that's so interesting.
00:36:39
Like you're right, it is like the best versions of things.
00:36:42
So it's like almost like they'll take something so simple.
00:36:45
They'll make it really elevated and really expensive.
00:36:47
And then all the other brands that are like less expensive will kind of make that too.
00:36:51
It's almost like going from the bottom to the top and then down again.
00:36:54
Do you know what I mean?
00:36:55
- Yes.
00:36:56
- Like they really, I had a friend who's like not that, I mean, she looks amazing.
00:37:00
But like she's not like that into fashion and she went to the road to buy a bag and she walked in.
00:37:05
She's like, what do I do?
00:37:09
I'm like, what do you mean?
00:37:09
She's like, what do I even get?
00:37:11
Like she like the clothes were like so confusing to her.
00:37:14
She's like, like what?
00:37:15
Like I need somebody to like explain everything.
00:37:18
Even though it's like so simple, she's like the like why?
00:37:21
- Yeah, it's kind of like the Japanese.
00:37:24
And it's interesting.
00:37:25
I think they really love this brand.
00:37:27
You know that brand Arts and Science or Sciences that Japanese brand.
00:37:31
I think they've been very inspired by that brand and that brand stores in Japan are amazing.
00:37:37
You can also buy it at noodle stories in Los Angeles and like a few other places in the US.
00:37:43
But it is that idea of like, have you read this book Amatoria about how Japan sort of co-opted preppy Ivy League style from the 1950s.
00:37:56
And then it's really interesting.
00:37:58
And my friend David wrote it, David Marx.
00:38:02
It basically and I highly recommend it for anyone who's just like interested in culture.
00:38:07
He also wrote a book called Status and Culture.
00:38:11
Just the like most straightforward about how like the things we buy, what they communicate to the world or what have you.
00:38:17
And he's working on another really great book right now.
00:38:19
But Amatoria I'd say 100% worth reading.
00:38:22
And it's essentially about how in Japanese culture and they do this with everything.
00:38:26
Like you go to Japan to eat, you can eat great Italian food or whatever because there's sort of way of living is finding something they like and recreating it and doing it better than the original.
00:38:40
And that's exactly what they've done.
00:38:43
Like Amatoria is essentially about how the Japanese took like Ivy League prep 1950s.
00:38:51
You can just talk about raw denim and cone mill.
00:38:55
Like that's it.
00:38:56
And now Japanese denim, I need a pair of like denim selvage jeans.
00:39:01
And I was looking on Levi's and it's Japanese denim.
00:39:06
And so the row has taken that sort of approach of let's find the best thing and then make it better and then put it back out into the world.
00:39:17
And then everybody copies that.
00:39:19
It's a really interesting circle.
00:39:21
Yeah, that's like everybody copying it after is like really interesting, like that part.
00:39:25
I feel like it's really interesting, you know?
00:39:28
Yeah.
00:39:29
So you started doing these online.
00:39:36
So I want to talk about the copies 'cause I'm curious what kinds of stuff your clients end up buying it when they're at different budgets.
00:39:42
But when you started doing these videos online, it was like fast and furious because I remember still living in Brooklyn and my friends Claire Mazer and Erica Cerulo talking about you on their podcast.
00:39:57
I don't know if they had you on or not, but they were talking about you and there was a Harper's Bazaar profile of you, I think.
00:40:04
Oh yeah.
00:40:05
Which I feel like was probably pretty early.
00:40:08
I feel like I still lived in Brooklyn when it happened.
00:40:11
That was pretty early.
00:40:12
I was also living in New York during that.
00:40:14
Yeah, like just about my FaceTime session, like my FaceTime consultations, right?
00:40:18
Yeah, so when did you start doing, I guess the pandemic means that a lot of stuff had to be virtual, but you've kept that to be, I assume that's a big part of your business.
00:40:30
How did you kind of transition to doing more of these virtual consultations and how does it work now that like we can be in real life?
00:40:40
And I'm sure what you charge for those, you're very in demand, so you can charge it up.
00:40:45
But it's probably not the same as if you're like going into someone's closet and ripping through it.
00:40:50
Right, so during like right before the pandemic, I had the idea of doing the virtual consultations just because I had, I was putting things online, I was showing like sort of the befores and afters of some of the clients that I saw in person,
00:41:04
and I was getting people messaging me being like, I live in Boston, like would you ever come here and do my closet?
00:41:09
And I was like, I mean, like probably not.
00:41:11
So I was trying to think of like a way to reach other people.
00:41:14
And so I had the idea of doing virtual and then once the pandemic hit, I was like, okay, like we'll just do it now.
00:41:19
And I was skeptical because I was like, well, how can like, you know, I won't be able to touch things, I won't be able to like really go into the closet, but it is really effective.
00:41:29
And so I do like about five or six of those a day with people, which is really fun.
00:41:34
And that allows me to reach like a lot of different people, again, like a lot of different budgets, like people from all over the world, like tomorrow I have a client in Thailand that I'm seeing at 7 a.m.
00:41:43
'cause like the time difference.
00:41:44
So I like, you know, like it's, which is so fun for me, I get to like be in, you know, different countries, I get to just like meet all different kinds of people.
00:41:51
So that's really amazing.
00:41:53
And then I also do the in person sessions, like around LA or when I'm in New York, I'll do those two, which yes, I charge more for that.
00:41:59
But the virtual sessions are so interesting and so fun for me.
00:42:04
And I truly, I enjoy them so much.
00:42:08
And I don't think I would be able to create content without having those because all of the content that I create is basically just like answering questions that I'm hearing all the time.
00:42:17
So I'm kind of like gathering the data and like getting kind of the inspiration during the the styling sessions and then figuring out a way to like message it out in a more broad way.
00:42:27
(audience applauding)
00:42:31
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00:43:36
(audience applauding)
00:43:39
- You mentioned that people are like trying to have more, bring more of their personality to their wardrobes right now after this era of let's get down to essentials and basics.
00:43:52
What are some of the other questions people are asking you right now are big issues?
00:43:58
Do you find, I guess, one from me is do you find, and this has come up a lot in my reporting, but also in these conversations we do on the podcast, do you find that a lot of women are trying to dress sexier or and I've had quotes or like more body con and-- - Yes,
00:44:16
okay, yes, a lot, a lot, yes.
00:44:20
There's been like five people maybe in the past like month that have referenced Sylvie from Emily in Paris.
00:44:28
- She looks amazing.
00:44:30
- She really does.
00:44:31
- She really does.
00:44:32
That like slinky sexy, yeah, I do think that is, I'm so, yes, that's exactly what people are wanting.
00:44:40
That's a huge thing of just like, how can I bring again that personality back or like that sexiness or like that kind of like femininity in like a very powerful way?
00:44:51
- Why do you think that is?
00:44:52
Do you think it is because we went through 10 years of dressing like monks?
00:44:58
- I'm probably, and I think it's also like, you know, like the baggy jeans and the big sweaters and like a lot of like, I feel like a lot of what we were looking for in like the past,
00:45:09
maybe even just five years is like structure and like, you know, like that, like a structured white t-shirt and like a really like high-waisted structured pant.
00:45:17
And I feel like now it's just kind of like going the other way where people want like a bit more of a drape.
00:45:21
Like even just shirt trend-wise, I feel like there was like, you know, everybody wanted that like perfect length, like pretty stiff white t-shirt that like had again,
00:45:32
that structure as kind of the keyword.
00:45:34
And now I'm seeing that people are kind of going back to that like T by Alexander Wang original row, like soft drapey, like almost sheer t-shirt.
00:45:44
So even just like the t-shirt trend, I'm like, oh yeah, there is like that people want that drape and that sexiness and you can see your broth through it.
00:45:51
It like, you know, it kind of hugs your curves as opposed to just being like really stiff, which like both are great.
00:45:57
And like both I feel like are useful for different looks.
00:45:59
But it is so interesting because nobody was asking for that for a while.
00:46:03
- Yeah, that's so interesting.
00:46:04
What are some of the brands that you like recommend a lot for that sort of shift in the way we're all dressing?
00:46:13
- For like the sexiness?
00:46:14
- Yeah.
00:46:15
- It's a really good question.
00:46:19
Well, okay, I guess it depends on like price and age and everything, but I feel like a lot of those like, people are wanting like, I feel like for a while, like the going out top was like the best or like a blazer with a t-shirt.
00:46:33
And now I think people are wanting again, like we're saying like that drape or like not a silk camion the way that we used to wear, but like something like that.
00:46:41
So I feel like a lot of those like Australian brands are like very good at those like kind of like sexy or tops.
00:46:47
- Like like posse, the OSSC.
00:46:50
- Yes.
00:46:51
Like that ordered a bunch of stuff from them and none of it fits.
00:46:53
So I did send it back and it was a big ordeal.
00:46:55
But I do like that brand.
00:46:57
It's cute.
00:46:58
- Yeah, that brand like sir, that like sir the label brand has like sexy tops.
00:47:04
Like even like stod, I feel like there's like a lot of that.
00:47:08
But yeah, that sexiness is really interesting.
00:47:12
But also I feel like a lot of that, or a lot of what I talk about in those sessions, it's like sure we want to add in like a little bit more of that drape and a little bit more of those like sexy silky pieces,
00:47:23
but it's also like kind of like the way that you style the things that you have to make them feel a little bit sexy.
00:47:28
Like before, let's say you would wear like a silk pant with like a really stiff like kind of row style like button down.
00:47:35
And now I feel like people are wanting like this silk pant with like a tighter top or like a silky button down.
00:47:43
Like it's really, yeah, just kind of like figuring out how to adjust for that drape and sexiness.
00:47:51
- How much do people care about looking, clothes looking quote unquote flattering?
00:47:59
So I feel like that word is like very charged in this way of, it's almost like you're not supposed to want your clothes to look flattering,
00:48:10
but people actually do.
00:48:12
- Yeah.
00:48:12
- And what does that mean exactly?
00:48:14
And how do you sort of navigate?
00:48:17
Because you are also dealing with like every single person no matter how skinny they are has like body issues.
00:48:24
- Yes, and that's like, it's so disheartening in a way, but also I'm like, okay, like this is just like the female, like this is just how we are.
00:48:32
And like I don't really know how we can change it.
00:48:34
And I have tried to be like, okay, like what if we sort of, didn't take out the idea of flattering, but just like put it lower on the priority list because sometimes I feel like the idea of flattering will sort of cloud what we actually like,
00:48:47
you know what I mean?
00:48:47
Like flattering will sometimes be number one.
00:48:49
And it's like, okay, like do we even like this?
00:48:52
Or are we just trying to look great, but I don't conceptually.
00:48:56
I've always like, okay, like let's forget about flattering because again, it's limiting.
00:49:02
But I do understand like you want to look good and you want to look hot.
00:49:05
And I like, I totally understand that that, you know, that consideration of flattering.
00:49:10
But for me, it's more like flattering is fine, but it's the dressing for your body type that I find like kind of annoying and problematic.
00:49:18
Like I think I've used this example before on social media, like I have a large chest, so like, you know, I should be wearing like lower neck things or V-necks or scoop, but like I don't like those.
00:49:30
And like if I was wearing a V-neck with a blazer, I would not be the same look as like a high crew neck with a blazer.
00:49:34
So it's like I feel like your style suffers a little bit when you're like to obsessed with like these rules for your body type.
00:49:40
But then again, I do understand like you don't want to wear something that you don't feel amazing and you don't feel like hot in.
00:49:46
So I don't know, it's that fine line.
00:49:49
It's interesting, I feel like not to besperch the rap dress because I think a lot of women look really good in them.
00:49:57
- Yeah.
00:49:58
- I obviously love D.V.F.
00:49:59
But I think that that shape in particular, I have like a thick waist and I stuff that seemed at the waist is really flattering or whatever and I feel really comfortable in.
00:50:11
But anything that's like tied at the waist, I actually don't think it's flattering for me.
00:50:18
It doesn't make me feel confident and like, I just think I need like a shape to be created unless of if you pull it together with a belt or like something looser,
00:50:32
like a tie, it's never worked and I feel like for years that look was pushed on me because it's like, oh, it creates a waist but it actually doesn't and you have to.
00:50:45
- It's interesting, like even looking at photos or whatever, sometimes stuff that I feel really good and it doesn't look perfect, but you have to do what you feel good in.
00:50:58
So that you can like go about the world feeling good and not worry so much about.
00:51:03
I remember years ago I was doing a shoot with like a video, an online video with a celebrity and she was just obsessing over her legs looking too thin.
00:51:15
And I just remember thinking like, man, it's everyone and so you just can't like harp on it.
00:51:24
It must a lot of your job must be like being like, don't harp on, what's the point of worrying about the stuff so much?
00:51:32
Like I want to look nice and not look bad, but I also like don't want to spend too much time thinking about it, which is an interesting thing for someone who works in the fashion industry but like people spend too much time worrying about how they look.
00:51:49
It's crazy.
00:51:50
- 100%.
00:51:51
And like, yeah, it's interesting too.
00:51:55
There's like some clients that I can tell like they almost want to be talked out of the insecurity.
00:52:01
So like they'll be like, I feel like I can't wear this because like I don't like my knees, but like what do you think?
00:52:06
And then in that case, I'm like, you can wear it and like your knees look great.
00:52:10
You know, like they're, I feel like people are more willing now to kind of be talked out of like silly things like that.
00:52:17
But then also just, I feel like a big portion of my job is really holding somebody's hand and being a cheerleader and saying like, no, like you're doing a really good job and you actually look great.
00:52:27
You know, obviously like I'm not gonna tell somebody, you know, if somebody's asking my opinion and something looks crazy, like I will tell them in a nice way, but like, you know, like people want to just you're like,
00:52:38
you're doing a good job, you have good taste, you know what you're doing, like just keep doing that because that confidence, I feel like is also really important in getting dressed and looking good.
00:52:48
- What has the book done for your business and your network?
00:52:54
And question two is, what does, you don't have to give me your P&L, but what does your business look like?
00:53:03
Like, are you, how do you structure it in terms of like, because you're doing a lot of, it seems like your business might be more of a volume business than a lot of stylists because you want to be affordable to a lot of different kinds of people,
00:53:19
but that requires more of you.
00:53:22
So part one, like what has, like the book done for you is in your career and the business and kind of getting the word out and be like,
00:53:33
how have you structured the business so you can like stay sane, but still access people who can't afford you to come to their house or what have you.
00:53:45
- Yes, okay, so the book I found was helpful because I was meeting all these people, like I was saying, I see like six people a day and a lot of times I'm saying the same thing, even if it's like a different problem,
00:53:56
a lot of times it's a similar solution.
00:53:58
So I found that the book is really helpful 'cause I could put all of these solutions down and just, you know, have them all in one place.
00:54:04
So if you can't afford a FaceTime session, but you still want to have access to me, like this is kind of what I'm saying.
00:54:13
So that felt really good.
00:54:15
It felt like really democratizing.
00:54:16
I was really happy to put that out.
00:54:19
I also like, you know, I think of myself as a teacher.
00:54:21
So like I love a lot of times when we'll get on a FaceTime session, like the client will have the book and they've read it and they've highlighted things and they have questions and they're like, well, can we like go into this part more?
00:54:31
And like I think that's also like, it's just like a helpful, it's helpful if you can't do a styling session, like it's a great resource.
00:54:38
But also it's like a good sort of companion piece to a FaceTime styling session 'cause then you come in like understanding sort of like the principles.
00:54:46
And then in terms of the way I structure my business, you're right, it is kind of like, it's more about volume.
00:54:52
And I've, when I first started this business every month, I said, how are you gonna scale it?
00:54:55
How are you gonna, it's like, I probably am not.
00:54:57
Because I don't, like, it's me.
00:55:00
What do you, I think?
00:55:01
- It's fine.
00:55:01
Yeah, you don't have to get investors and have 50 stylists under you.
00:55:05
If you do that-- - Exactly.
00:55:07
- I'm happy for you.
00:55:08
I'll write about it, but you don't have to.
00:55:10
You can have this amazing life and help people and go on TV and-- - And I truly enjoy it.
00:55:17
I really, really enjoy it.
00:55:18
So I would say like the most time spent in my business is the styling sessions.
00:55:23
And then I also do partnerships with brands and stuff like that.
00:55:26
But I don't think I would be able to have the ideas or like the content even work with brands.
00:55:33
If I wasn't meeting people every day.
00:55:37
So I feel like those kind of go hand in hand.
00:55:39
And then, yeah, the book is just like a nice little addition.
00:55:43
- Do you ever kind of take a survey with your people and then take that data and consult with brands on the data that you've gotten from surveying all your clients?
00:55:57
Well, if you have it, you should do that.
00:55:59
- I was gonna say like not in a formal way, but I do, I should in a more formal way.
00:56:04
It's just more like, 'cause there is, right now like the seasons are kind of changing, but like once we get into the colder months, it's like there are like trends that are more like questions that everybody's asking.
00:56:15
Like last year, it was like what boots do I wear with what shape of jeans?
00:56:19
Like that, like I would say 89% of people were asking that question.
00:56:24
So like that's really helpful to know.
00:56:26
But no, that's a good idea.
00:56:27
'Cause I do have like an interesting sample set and like you know, obviously people are willing to sort of share that.
00:56:34
(audience applauds)
00:56:37
- So I have one styling question for you and then I have one final finale question before we go.
00:56:50
Holiday dressing.
00:56:53
Every, I was just thinking about this, for some reason when we were talking this dress that I bought for New Year's Eve, a few years ago, a top shop or something.
00:57:03
And I'm like, damn, I obviously don't have that.
00:57:05
Like any, I stopped buying that fast fashion stuff because I would just get, end up getting rid of it.
00:57:11
And but now I'm like, oh damn, I wish I still had that dress 'cause it looked really good on me and it was a cute dress anyway.
00:57:19
I wanna look festive, I find it difficult because I'm not like a sparkle person.
00:57:26
I don't like stuff with, also like one year I bought.
00:57:30
Do you remember when Kate was doing a lot of these?
00:57:33
But I got this from Rachel Comey of the Sheer.
00:57:37
It was like sheered, it was sheered, a sheered top but also like sheered fabric.
00:57:43
- Yeah.
00:57:44
- And they had like Pindot.
00:57:46
Like it would be like a spray of polka dots.
00:57:49
I had this blouse from Rachel Comey that was beautiful.
00:57:52
And I bought that for the holidays and I wore it to like two holiday parties and then I promptly sold it because I was like, I look silly in this.
00:57:59
It's not for me.
00:58:00
I just am not a person who is super comfortable with festive.
00:58:05
And I also want something that if I'm gonna buy it, like I have a pair of velvet pants from the row, I can wear those with stuff and dress them up.
00:58:15
But I wear those like in the fall and the winter, it doesn't have to be holiday.
00:58:20
They're just black velvet pants.
00:58:21
Do you have any suggestions of, because I feel like people end up spending a ton of money on this festive stuff for the holidays and then they never wear it again and they're annoyed and like how do you approach party holiday party dressing around that time of the year?
00:58:38
- Yes, okay.
00:58:39
Like I understand the need and the want to be like, I want something fun, festive and like special.
00:58:44
You know, I don't wanna wear what I would just wear every day but I do always ask, I'm like, what would you wear if this was just like a normal cocktail party and like what can we add to that that maybe like adds a little bit of festiveness?
00:58:55
Like is it like some fun accessories?
00:58:57
Is it like a shoe that you might wear again?
00:58:59
Like for you, is it like those silk rope pants and that or sorry, those velvet rope pants and then like is it adding like a fun black silk blouse and maybe like a fun like rosette or a broach or just I don't know,
00:59:10
like something like a little like fun and festive that you would wear again.
00:59:14
I always ask myself until clients ask themselves, if I wear this to a holiday party and then I like go and meet friends for drinks after like why feel silly or will I still want to wear this?
00:59:26
'Cause I feel like a lot of times we'll get like really costuming in the holiday.
00:59:29
- Yeah.
00:59:30
- Dressing and then like you're like, yeah, I'm never gonna wear this again and I would actually feel kind of weird going someplace else other than this specific holiday party wearing that.
00:59:39
So I feel like that's kind of a good test.
00:59:40
Like what I wanna get a drink after or what I feel like, I don't feel that cool.
00:59:45
So yeah, I guess that's not really answering your question but I think it's just like adding like little details, accessories, shoes.
00:59:52
Like again, if you're gonna do like the velvet rope pants, like what, you know, can we add like a fun top to that, can we add a fun top and then put a blazer over to make it feel like you,
01:00:02
I would just like go for like what do you normally wear to a cocktail party and then like how can we sort of put it through like a slightly more festive lens that still feels like yourself?
01:00:11
- Yeah, I think that like what I feel silly afterwards is a great one for me.
01:00:17
So final question, Alison.
01:00:19
- Yeah.
01:00:20
- What are your three words?
01:00:23
- Okay, so I like came up with my three words a long time ago when I came up with the concept and I feel like I'm gonna need, I need to like reimagine them.
01:00:32
So mine are kind of basic.
01:00:33
My first one's classic, which is normally one that I like don't really accept from people and like, okay, like let's figure out more.
01:00:39
So like I don't know why I'm allowed to have it, but classic 70s and then elegant, which you said too.
01:00:46
Like I, and I don't know if that's like a New York thing where it's like, I feel at least when I was living in New York, I was like constantly frazzled, constantly doing a lot of things that I had to remind myself, like let's like tighten this up.
01:00:56
Like it's, we can look undone like an old symbol, like we don't wanna look like insane or like messier crazy.
01:01:03
So I feel like that was always a good reminder for me.
01:01:06
- Yeah, I always wanna look put together.
01:01:09
- Yes, exactly.
01:01:10
- I want like, I feel like there's a trend of like, people always wanting to look effortless and like they didn't try and I'm like, no, I'm kind of the opposite, like I want you to be like, wow, like you really,
01:01:20
yeah, I want them to know that I thought about this look.
01:01:23
- Yeah.
01:01:25
Allison, this was so fun.
01:01:26
- Lauren, thank you for having me.
01:01:28
- It was such a pleasure to get to know you more.
01:01:30
Yeah, and congrats on all your success.
01:01:32
It's really fun.
01:01:33
I have a feeling your next phase is gonna be even bigger.
01:01:36
So I'm glad I caught you now.
01:01:39
- I hope so and congratulations on your book.
01:01:41
I'm so excited to read it.
01:01:43
- Thank you so much.
01:01:44
Yeah, we'll talk on book process someday soon, maybe some coffee or lunch and soap, like, or something.
01:01:51
- Sounds perfect.
01:01:52
- Yeah, thank you again.
01:01:53
- It was great to chat.
01:01:54
- Thank you.
01:01:55
- Bye.
01:01:56
- Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey and partnership with Puck, hosted by Lauren Sherman.
01:02:02
That's me.
01:02:03
Our executive producers are John Kelly, co-founder of Puck, Ben Landy, executive editor of Puck, Gabby Grossman, director of editorial operations at Puck and Bob Tabidor,
01:02:14
executive producer at Odyssey.
01:02:16
Edited, mixed and mastered by Molly Nuget.
01:02:19
Special thanks to the team at Odyssey, including JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss-Burman, Maddie Sprung-Kaiser, Josephina Francis, Hillary Shuff, and Kurt Courtney.
01:02:29
- Hi, it's me again.
01:02:34
Just a heads up that all holiday season will be delivering episodes according to the regular schedule.
01:02:40
So if you're bored, if you're exhausted, if you just need pumped up, I'll be there.
01:02:46