DiscoverLessWrong (30+ Karma)“Omniscaling to MNIST” by cloud
“Omniscaling to MNIST” by cloud

“Omniscaling to MNIST” by cloud

Update: 2025-11-08
Share

Description

In this post, I describe a mindset that is flawed, and yet helpful for choosing impactful technical AI safety research projects.

The mindset is this: future AI might look very different than AI today, but good ideas are universal. If you want to develop a method that will scale up to powerful future AI systems, your method should also scale down to MNIST. In other words, good ideas omniscale: they work well across all model sizes, domains, and training regimes.

The Modified National Institute of Standards and Technology database (MNIST): 70,000 images of handwritten digits, 28x28 pixels each (source: Wikipedia). You can fit the whole dataset and many models on a single GPU!

Putting the omniscaling mindset into practice is straightforward. Any time you come across a clever-sounding machine learning idea, ask: "can I apply this to MNIST?" If not, then it's not a good idea. If so, run an experiment to see if it works. If it doesn't, then it's not a good idea. If it does, then it might be a good idea, and you can continue as usual to more realistic experiments or theory.

In this post, I will:

  1. Share how MNIST experiments have informed my [...]

---

Outline:

(01:58 ) Applications to MNIST

(02:42 ) Gradient routing

(04:43 ) Distillation robustifies unlearning

(08:39 ) Subliminal learning

(10:37 ) Why you should do it on MNIST

(11:30 ) MNIST is not sufficient (and other tips)

(14:25 ) The omniscaling assumption is false

(17:09 ) Code and more ideas

(18:40 ) Closing thoughts

The original text contained 7 footnotes which were omitted from this narration.

---


First published:

November 8th, 2025



Source:

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/4aeshNuEKF8Ak356D/omniscaling-to-mnist


---


Narrated by TYPE III AUDIO.


---

Images from the article:

The Modified National Institute of Standards and Technology database (MNIST): 70,000 images of handwritten digits, 28x28 pixels each (source: Wikipedia). You can fit the whole dataset and many models on a single GPU!
A figure from the gradient routing paper, showing (a) a neural net training setup for creating split representations of MNIST digits, and (b) the resulting losses when decoding from these representations. Note: this result requires L1 regularization applied to the encoder's output. In general, gradient routing doesn't require L1 regularization to work. So, this experiment probably isn't the best example of gradient routing to keep in mind.
Results from preliminary experiments from MATS 7. A model (green) trained to perfectly imitate a model never trained on certain digits (yellow), nevertheless learns those digits much more quickly. It even learns more quickly than a randomly initialized model (red).
A figure from the subliminal learning paper, showing an MNIST version of the paper's main experiments (which were on LLMs).

Apple Podcasts and Spotify do not show images in the episode description. Try Pocket Casts, or another podcast app.

Comments 
loading
In Channel
loading
00:00
00:00
1.0x

0.5x

0.8x

1.0x

1.25x

1.5x

2.0x

3.0x

Sleep Timer

Off

End of Episode

5 Minutes

10 Minutes

15 Minutes

30 Minutes

45 Minutes

60 Minutes

120 Minutes

“Omniscaling to MNIST” by cloud

“Omniscaling to MNIST” by cloud