Market Proof Marketing

Kevin Oakley and Rachel Spaugh are back in the studio for another round of Office Hours. In this episode, their discussion on AI, uncertainty, and messaging uncovers how to approach everything from fear to facts. Together they break down what to do when you need credibility and what's more powerful than certainty in your messaging right now.Tune in to learnHow your leaders think you’re using AI vs how you should be using itWhy objections aren’t the problem you think they areHear Kevin build an end of year campaign theme on the spot

In this episode, host Kevin Oakley is joined by guest Kim Sandoval, Director of Corporate Marketing for Classic Homes. Together they discuss Kim's nonlinear career path in homebuilder marketing, revealing salient reminders not to box in yourself, your career, or your company's growth with narrow thinking. As Kevin and Kim share the gift of retrospect clarity, both of their histories serve as needed reminders that every great success story has periods of expansion and contraction - on multiple levels. Reminder: You + Kim + Chicago = Even More Influential Leadership LessonsListeners attending the 2025 Online Sales and Marketing Summit in Chicago in just two short weeks will have the chance to hear from Kim and other leaders live in Beth Russell's panel session, Everything the Light Touches is Yours: Real World Influence from Marketing Leaders. You won't want to miss this chance to hear Kim and her powerhouse peers dive deeper into real wins and lessons learned.Key TopicsGrowth is Not Linear - How Kim pivoted from agency-side builder experience, to consulting for builders, before finally going all-in on one culture that captured her heartStay the Course - The crucial advice she has for everyone doubting this market right now, pulled straight from her time striking out on her own to serve builders during the 2008 recessionFind Your Fit - Ideas and encouragement on where to find your perfect fit, even if it lands you in an unexpected seat or an entirely different part of the business

In this episode, Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski to discuss diagnosing hidden community issues, aligning the whole team around intent, and how to nail messaging and positioning in a shifting market. From long-form articles around behavior data to hot takes on who actually uses Bing, this one is sure to have you thinking about familiar topics in new ways.

In this episode, Kevin Oakley joins Jackie Lipinski and Beth Russell in the studio to reflect on the fine lines between lying and storytelling in marketing, the attribution lies you must know (so you can avoid them), and how creatives in our industry are inspiring the DYC marketing team.Listen closely - this short episode packs in some big questions and even bigger topics in today's ai-driven digital marketing landscape.Story TimeBeth - finding secondhand joy in watching others do creative workJackie - building your own breadcrumbs if you're doing something BIGKevin - the inherent conflict between truth and storytelling at the heart of being a marketerIn the NewsGEO x local SEO: What it means for the future of discovery

As Jackie and Julie summited the heights of Mt. Rainier with camping gear in tow, marketing inspiration found them where they least expected it. Today, they’re bringing all the fresh insights back to the MPM studio to share with listeners so you can get ahead of your own end-of-year mountains to move.

In this milestone 400th episode of Market Proof Marketing, Kevin Oakley, Julie Jarnagin, and Beth Russell share some provocative takes on what happens when marketing and sales stop collaborating and start competing for credit. When marketing and sales become a marriage on the rocks, someone has to take the first step toward resolution. Learn what every great therapist knows not to do when this happens.

In this episode, Rachel returns for another round of Office Hours with Kevin. Together, they unpack one of the most misunderstood, overindexed, and emotionally charged concepts in homebuilder marketing: attribution. Rachel, still relatively new to the industry, brings the curiosity of someone learning in real time, asking the foundational questions many marketers may feel too embarrassed to raise around attribution. Kevin breaks it all down with signature clarity, diving deep into the messy intersection of intent, data privacy, ad platform incentives, and why marketers should stop trying to prove value with “magic wand” numbers.

Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski to talk through burnout, delegation, and the invisible work that keeps marketers stuck. This episode isn’t about perfection; it’s about momentum. And it’s a lifeline for anyone trying to hold it all together with too little time and too few resources.Summit Special AnnouncementSummit 2025 is almost here, with over 100 builders already sending attendees, many bringing their entire online sales or marketing teams. Registration closes soon, and the best hotel rooms are going fast.Story TimeBeth – Why one marketer’s 10‑hour flyer problem is more common than you think—and how a new rubric helps teams reset without shame.Jackie – Everyone’s in sales now. A builder’s moment of clarity becomes a team‑wide shift in accountability.Julie – The Buc‑ee’s effect. What a Texas gas station taught Julie about brand, consistency, and operational brilliance.In the NewsSmall Team, Big Impact: A Solo Marketer's Guide to Maximizing OutcomesAI‑Generated Content Doesn’t Hurt Google RankingsInstagram Content Will Now Be Searchable on Google

Brian Boero, co-founder and CEO of 1000Watt, joins Kevin Oakley for a punchy, high-frequency conversation on how home builders can (and should) learn from the broader real estate world. With decades of insight from both agents and consumers, Brian brings a unique lens to current challenges, and opportunities, for builders navigating 2025’s volatile market.This episode previews Brian’s upcoming talk at the Online Sales & Marketing Summit, pulling from his research, fieldwork, and no-BS branding instincts to spark fresh perspective on how to break from the herd, build trust with brokers, and tap into what today’s buyers actually want.Break the Pattern Before It Breaks YouBuilders that mimic competitors become the slowest zebraA standout product means nothing if no one can tell it’s differentBuyers Want Freedom, Agents Want HelpGen Z wants a home they can paint and own, not just a good dealAgents are tired, anxious, and open to new kinds of partnershipsListen now to get Brian’s take on off-MLS strategy, how to craft ads that actually move people, and why “get off my lawn” might be the most powerful copy you write this year.

Kevin Oakley and Jackie Lipinski break down what sets successful builders apart in a shaky market (and why AI won’t save you if your strategy’s unclear). From underutilized CRM systems to the danger of deceptive ad automation, this one’s packed with hard truths and practical insight.Special AnnouncementsSummit is selling out at a rate of 3-4 tickets purchased per day. Don't miss out - save your spot today!Market Proof Marketing Academy for Spring 2025 is a wrap! But the waitlist for next time is officially live; save your spot and be the first to hear when fall dates are announced.Story TimeJackie – Spending $4K/mo on CRM with no OSC? Let’s talkKevin – Some advice is expensive (not in a good way)In the NewsHuman vs. Machine: Who Should Be Steering Your Paid Ad Campaigns?How Outlier Home Builders Build an Edge, Even in a Slow MarketGoogle Promotes AI Mode on Homepage DoodleEven in a flat-lead environment, builders are hitting goals; not with silver bullets but with smart, grounded execution. Clarity outperforms complexity, every time.

In this debut installment of Office Hours with Kevin, Rachel Spaugh (DYC’s Marketing & Events Manager) sits down with Kevin Oakley for a grounded-yet-ambitious conversation about what it really takes to grow as a marketer. Drawing from decades of experience, Kevin breaks down the invisible steps between just starting out and true, practiced expertise.This episode unpacks the journey through technical skill-building, data fluency, strategic thinking, and leadership, all with a lens toward avoiding the shortcuts that sabotage long-term success. If you're serious about your craft, this one will feel like a reset button.In This EpisodeThe four stages of development, from “you don’t know what you don’t know” to conscious competence, including:Why fast-tracking your career might land you face-to-face with Lucifer himselfTactical ways to stand out and get ahead (hint: daily habits matter)Signs you've mastered your craft without realizing itWhen to shut up, when to risk it, and when to stop acting your age and get curious againThe doors are open. The questions cut deep. The answers? Not for the half-hearted. If you’re in the thick of a marketing career at any stage, this episode will leave you smarter, clearer, and maybe even a little more fired up to level up.Listen now. Bring your questions next time: Office Hours exists to bring you a front-row seat into deeper conversations between a fresh pair of marketing eyes in the homebuilder industry and a seasoned pro serving up career-changing perspectives and playbooks.

No guests. No segments. Just Kevin, a porch mic, and four surf-side stories from Hilton Head to help you reset your marketing instincts.He covers:What happens when you fight the tide (and lose)Why your best data might be lying to youHow to spot a shark before the lifeguard doesThe missed wave sitting in your CRMThis isn’t a how-to. It’s a how-it-feels. And sometimes that’s the episode you need.Tune in. The ocean doesn’t wait.

Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski to tease out the topic of how to play by the rules and win. Is your team sliding into a panic-fueled (rule)bender? DYC has got you! Julie, Jackie and Beth talk mid-year pivots, market psychology, and incentives missteps, all to help you know when to break the rules vs. when to follow them. Tackling everything from Michelin guides to Groupon flops, this episode is your unofficial halftime huddle.Note: The team experienced technical difficulties throughout this episode; please excuse any audio issues as we work through new processes and platforms. Special Announcements:Summit speakers are live on the site! Visit www.onlinesalessummit.com to read about our featured keynote speakers.Story Time [03:42]Rule #1: Follow the RulesMidsummer panic? Stop bending the rules and get back on track.Dust off those goals and remember with presale, process is progress.Rule #2: Know When to Break Rule #1Find your Michelin strategy… no sabotage requiredWhen conventional wisdom and today’s trends are wrong for youIn the News [19:38]Redfin: U.S. Home Prices Hit an All-time HighMeta Advises Page Managers to Post Links in CommentsListen now and rethink what’s urgent, what’s lasting, and what your audience really needs.

In this episode, Kevin Oakley is joined by Jackie Lipinski and Beth Russell for a discussion that speaks directly to the mental load marketers are carrying right now. They unpack what it means to feel like a firefighter, why leadership fatigue is a very real thing, and how the industry's obsession with quick fixes like AI-generated ads might be missing the point. From shifting ad expectations to reclaiming clarity in your work, this one’s packed with insight.Listen in for a refreshing dose of validation, perspective, and tactical advice.Story Time [00:38]Jackie – Feeling like firefightersBeth – Is it burnout or something else?Kevin – why it’s a win to find a lead-quality lie in the dataIn the News [16:40]Google Promoted Pins Come to Maps for Demand Gen CampaignsMeta Aims to Fully Automate Ad Creation Using AI If your brain feels overloaded or you’re tempted to chase the newest AI shortcut, this episode reminds you where the real value lies: in clarity, strategy, and staying human.

Kevin Oakley is joined by Chris Mumford, CMO of CoStar Group Marketplaces, and Marc Regardie, Senior Director of New Construction at Homes.com. They pull back the curtain on why they want to become the most influential platform for new construction listings, how homes.com is different, and what it takes to disrupt a deeply entrenched real estate category.From Chris’s experience leading one of the largest media campaigns in real estate history to the quiet power of aligning incentives between builders and consumers, this episode is full of big bets anyone paying attention to the homebuilding industry will want to hear.Built Differently on PurposeA new take on how leads workMarc talks about how and why homes.com is “fixing what’s missing.”The Long Game Starts HereChris' winning plays from the days of insurance warsBuilding a brand people actually likeWhat Builders Should KnowNo paywall, no catchMatterports: now table stakesWhether you're skeptical of another portal or curious about where this one’s headed, this episode offers an insider look at a platform that aims to reshape how new homes are found and sold.Tune in, share it with your team, and keep an eye on what launches this summer.

In this episode of Market Proof Marketing, Kevin Oakley is joined by Steve Shoemaker, President of Ideal Homes in Oklahoma City. From gluing sales contracts to leading an entire company, Steve shares the mindset shifts and hard-earned lessons that helped him grow beyond his original marketing role.

It’s a conversation packed with career wisdom, hilarious stories, and a preview of what Steve will bring to the stage at this year’s Online Sales & Marketing Summit.

This week on Market Proof Marketing, Kevin Oakley is joined by Beth Russell and Julie Jarnagin for an honest discussion about today’s homebuyer mindset and what marketers need to do right now to drive results. They share cautionary tales about misattributed wins, the importance of applying the fundamentals (like walking your own inventory homes), and why finished homes deserve more strategic attention than ever. Plus, they tackle the latest AI ad tools and why marketers shouldn’t blindly trust automation, especially in homebuilding.

In this episode of Market Proof Marketing, Kevin Oakley is joined by Beth Russell and Jen Barkan to talk about the real value of human connection in online sales, the evolving use of AI tools, and what builders need to understand right now about market timing and syndication platforms. Jen surprises everyone with an AI-assisted rap performance, and the group explores how technology can support, but never replace, the critical role of people in the new home sales process.

In this episode of Market Proof Marketing, Jackie Lipinski and Beth Russell reflect on the power of clear communication, clean marketing systems, and community-first thinking. From school movie nights and panic cleaning to organizing ad accounts and analyzing the Q1 Online Sales Benchmarks, this episode covers the serious and the silly. Plus, a detailed recap of the most recent Market Proof Marketing Academy, thoughts on Google's AI ad integrations, and a reminder that your brand lives well beyond your website.

Kevin, Jackie, and Beth explore why panic marketing leads to bad decisions—and why AI, chatbots, and SEO are still misunderstood tools, not magical solutions. They unpack the overreaction to AI “replacing” Google, the importance of strategic authority in marketing, and the hard truth that too much content is just as bad as too little. Plus: how builders can actually compete with resale, avoid misleading optimism, and why YouTube is still often the most underused, but valuable tool in your toolkit.