Market Proof Marketing

Kevin Oakley joins Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell to discuss the delta between a booming business and simply sending too-busy signals to buyers. The team reflects on why built-in distance through the use of automation and chatbots is bad for business.If solving for attribution headaches, automation concerns, and leveraging limited budget across the right platforms are on your end of year to-do list, this episode will help reveal what matters most to your buyers right now.Special AnnouncementsJust a couple seats left for January’s Market Proof Marketing Academy - don’t wait until it’s too late to save your spot!If you manage Online Sales too, OSA and OSAL are coming up in early 2026 too. Check them out today!Story TimeBeth – Tales from the home-search front: back-in-market woes made worse by AI searchJulie – Doorbusters aren’t busting like they used to, but homebuilder marketers can create urgency where retail lost the plotKevin – Are you sure you can’t respond to everyone who wants to do business with you?In the NewsSellers are taking their homes off the market at the fastest pace in nearly a decadePew: 84% Of Adults Use YouTube As Platform Growth ContinuesThe Pinball Customer Journey Has Replaced the Marketing Funnel

Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell on this special Thanksgiving edition to tackle the challenges marketers face in a world overflowing with information and AI slop.From breaking out of narrow thinking to sparking authentic connections with your audience, they share practical ways to transform your marketing by starting with the underlying thoughts that ultimately shape strategy. Learn how to stand out, ignite that spark, and stay ahead before an avalanche of AI noise drowns out your message.Story TimeBeth - Can a brain scientist teach marketers how to avoid categorical thinking traps?Julie - A school tour sheds light on building a great onsite experienceIn the NewsMeta's AI tools are going rogue and churning out some very strange adsAdobe to buy Semrush for $1.9 billionAs AI slop spreads on social media, brands have lessons to learn

Kevin Oakley, Julie Jarnagin, and Jackie Lipinski discuss why great marketing is less about the message and more about the moment. From anniversaries to fishing lures to funnel metrics, the takeaway is the same: your audience determines your strategy. The right nuance can change everything.Special AnnouncementsMarket Proof Marketing Academy 2026 enrollment is nearly full. With fresh curriculum and expanded expert sessions, grab your spot now.Story TimeJulie - Who cares about 100 years? And how? And why?Jackie - An apparent a-fish-ionado, Jackie shares how her lure strategy relates to changing bait in digital advertising Kevin - Funneling more of nothing (good) still gets you nothingIn the NewsChatGPT Ads Are Coming — and They Won’t Look Like Google AdsThe Starbucks “Bearista” Cup Craze: When Product Drops Become Cultural EventsMeta to launch no-ads subscriptions in the UK

Host Kevin Oakley joins Jackie Lipinski in the studio to discuss technology, change, and the inevitability of pain. Kevin shares cogent examples (like choosing not to participate in a bad economy through a 500% tip) to illuminate counterintuitive mindset moves to keep builders moving forward. From the struggles that shape resilience to the real story of search data for builders, this episode is a reminder that you don’t have to internalize the valley, or the narrative.Story TimeJackie – Pain points and growth spurts look the same in retrospectKevin – If seemingly constant change has you reaching for more control, choose focus over fakesIn the NewsPost to Google Business Profiles: An Untapped Realm in the Building IndustryOctober 2025 Monthly Housing Market TrendsScams at ScaleState of Search Q3 2025

Nick Aufenkamp, founder of DIY Home Buyer Academy, joins Kevin Oakley to explore how transparency, data, and evolving buyer agency are rewriting the rules of real estate. Kevin and Nick share surprising takes on the current and future state of the Zillow + ChatGPT partnership. From start to finish, this episode is brimming with insights on what happens when buyers start leading the process themselves.AI & the Mirror EffectTech is giving us a mirror; turn it into a mapNew tools are revealing what buyers actually trust and whyNick’s own emotional arc with Zillow’s ChatGPT experiment: from frustration to fascinationAgency After the NAR SettlementThe settlement flipped on the lights, yet shadows from the past still lingerWhy buyers now want (and expect) more control in every transactionHow builders can back empowered buyers without burning agent bridgesFollow Nick on LinkedIn and Youtube:https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickaufenkamp/https://www.youtube.com/@DIYHomebuyer

Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski to explore what today’s challenges can teach marketers about grit, growth, and grace. From marketing merit badges to limiting factors, they discuss the perspective and strategy builders need to finish the year strong.Special AnnouncementsMarket Proof Marketing Academy 2026 is open for registration! A high-energy, hands-on virtual event designed to fast-track marketing mastery for homebuilder marketers. Space is limited - save your spot before it’s gone.Story TimeBeth – Redefining wins beyond sales and measuring momentum that moves the business forwardJackie – Three quotes to keep every recovering perfectionist grounded and thrivingJulie – Leadership means being the calm in Q4In the Newshttps://www.doyouconvert.com/blog/the-limiting-factor-to-sales-results/Zillow Pulls Matterport Tours from Listings (Blames CoStar)10 Surprising Takeaways from the Minds of Today’s Homebuyer Google Officially Shuts Down Privacy Sandbox 

On this bonus episode, Qadra Evans, Director of Industry & Partner Engagement at Zillow, joins host Kevin Oakley for a look inside how one of the most-used housing platforms is adjusting to new demands in buyer behavior, builder engagement, and affordability. This conversation breaks down what’s evolving and how builders can interpret the signals.Tools That Reflect the MomentFrom dream browsing to financial fit: affordability filters get realListings trends are shifting from static to cinematic (and the scroll times prove it)Signals from the Buyer SideThe new new construction buyer: Gen Z (and their parents)Which considerations are rising fast in buyer decision-making?

Kevin Oakley joins Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell for conversations on ChatGPT considerations, Sora’s impact, shutdown shockwaves, and Halloween costumes. Whether you love or hate the rapid pace of change lately, this episode dives into the major shifts shaping the market and more.Special announcementsInterest in the January Market Proof Marketing Academy is at an all-time high, with a record number of people on the list. Tickets go live this week, so make sure to grab your spot before it’s full! You can find out at the link above.Key TopicsOpenAI’s newest feature - Is the “app within the app” ahead of its time or an empty gimmick?A sea of content - Questioning the repercussions of AI’s explosive growth in video content creationFurloaned - How to prepare for the extended consequences of the current government shutdownListen in and send us your thoughts and questions. 

Fresh from the Summit, Kevin Oakley sits down with Rachel Spaugh for Office Hours to debrief on what stood out most. From how AI is reshaping content to how marketers can hand off great ideas to sales without losing trust, this one’s all about clarity, compression, and exerting creative control without chaos.

Host Kevin Oakley joins Julie Jarnagin and Jackie Lipinski to unpack the newest AI experiments, marketing shifts, and growth mindsets shaping 2026 and beyond. From Meta’s surreal new playground to the delicate relationship between builder breakthroughs and removing “limiting factors,” this episode looks at how curiosity and clarity drive progress, even when tech or timelines get in the way. Special AnnouncementsThe next Market Proof Marketing Academy is just around the corner, but the waitlist is already almost full! If you want in on this unique opportunity to learn from DYC’s best and brightest - regardless of whether your builder works with Do You Convert - this is your chance. Seize the moment before the last few spots are gone.Key Topics DiscussedDoes the future belong to fewer, bigger players?Love the growth leaps, but remember to value every stepFever dream frontiers - is Meta wooing creators or consumers?Weighing the privacy costs of the “customized everything” digital dreamIn the NewsCompass to acquire Anywhere, creating world's largest brokerageMeta "Vibes" is released - will anyone care?Advertising in 2030

In this solo episode, Kevin Oakley takes you inside the room at a recent ULI panel. Builders, sales leaders, and consultants gathered to debate the toughest questions facing the industry, and Kevin is pulling back the curtain to share exactly what he was asked and how he answered.Here are the five big questions he tackled:Beyond discounts: what really drives buyer traffic?Online sales: speed or personalization?Resale vs. new: who wins when rates drop?The holy grail: is it possible to achieve volume and margin?2026: what’s ahead for builders?Listen in for unfiltered answers that challenge assumptions, spotlight bold strategies, and point to the realities shaping the immediate future of homebuilding.

Kevin Oakley and Rachel Spaugh are back in the studio for another round of Office Hours. In this episode, their discussion on AI, uncertainty, and messaging uncovers how to approach everything from fear to facts. Together they break down what to do when you need credibility and what's more powerful than certainty in your messaging right now.Tune in to learnHow your leaders think you’re using AI vs how you should be using itWhy objections aren’t the problem you think they areHear Kevin build an end of year campaign theme on the spot

In this episode, host Kevin Oakley is joined by guest Kim Sandoval, Director of Corporate Marketing for Classic Homes. Together they discuss Kim's nonlinear career path in homebuilder marketing, revealing salient reminders not to box in yourself, your career, or your company's growth with narrow thinking. As Kevin and Kim share the gift of retrospect clarity, both of their histories serve as needed reminders that every great success story has periods of expansion and contraction - on multiple levels. Reminder: You + Kim + Chicago = Even More Influential Leadership LessonsListeners attending the 2025 Online Sales and Marketing Summit in Chicago in just two short weeks will have the chance to hear from Kim and other leaders live in Beth Russell's panel session, Everything the Light Touches is Yours: Real World Influence from Marketing Leaders. You won't want to miss this chance to hear Kim and her powerhouse peers dive deeper into real wins and lessons learned.Key TopicsGrowth is Not Linear - How Kim pivoted from agency-side builder experience, to consulting for builders, before finally going all-in on one culture that captured her heartStay the Course - The crucial advice she has for everyone doubting this market right now, pulled straight from her time striking out on her own to serve builders during the 2008 recessionFind Your Fit - Ideas and encouragement on where to find your perfect fit, even if it lands you in an unexpected seat or an entirely different part of the business

In this episode, Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski to discuss diagnosing hidden community issues, aligning the whole team around intent, and how to nail messaging and positioning in a shifting market. From long-form articles around behavior data to hot takes on who actually uses Bing, this one is sure to have you thinking about familiar topics in new ways.

In this episode, Kevin Oakley joins Jackie Lipinski and Beth Russell in the studio to reflect on the fine lines between lying and storytelling in marketing, the attribution lies you must know (so you can avoid them), and how creatives in our industry are inspiring the DYC marketing team.Listen closely - this short episode packs in some big questions and even bigger topics in today's ai-driven digital marketing landscape.Story TimeBeth - finding secondhand joy in watching others do creative workJackie - building your own breadcrumbs if you're doing something BIGKevin - the inherent conflict between truth and storytelling at the heart of being a marketerIn the NewsGEO x local SEO: What it means for the future of discovery

As Jackie and Julie summited the heights of Mt. Rainier with camping gear in tow, marketing inspiration found them where they least expected it. Today, they’re bringing all the fresh insights back to the MPM studio to share with listeners so you can get ahead of your own end-of-year mountains to move.

In this milestone 400th episode of Market Proof Marketing, Kevin Oakley, Julie Jarnagin, and Beth Russell share some provocative takes on what happens when marketing and sales stop collaborating and start competing for credit. When marketing and sales become a marriage on the rocks, someone has to take the first step toward resolution. Learn what every great therapist knows not to do when this happens.

In this episode, Rachel returns for another round of Office Hours with Kevin. Together, they unpack one of the most misunderstood, overindexed, and emotionally charged concepts in homebuilder marketing: attribution. Rachel, still relatively new to the industry, brings the curiosity of someone learning in real time, asking the foundational questions many marketers may feel too embarrassed to raise around attribution. Kevin breaks it all down with signature clarity, diving deep into the messy intersection of intent, data privacy, ad platform incentives, and why marketers should stop trying to prove value with “magic wand” numbers.

Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski to talk through burnout, delegation, and the invisible work that keeps marketers stuck. This episode isn’t about perfection; it’s about momentum. And it’s a lifeline for anyone trying to hold it all together with too little time and too few resources.Summit Special AnnouncementSummit 2025 is almost here, with over 100 builders already sending attendees, many bringing their entire online sales or marketing teams. Registration closes soon, and the best hotel rooms are going fast.Story TimeBeth – Why one marketer’s 10‑hour flyer problem is more common than you think—and how a new rubric helps teams reset without shame.Jackie – Everyone’s in sales now. A builder’s moment of clarity becomes a team‑wide shift in accountability.Julie – The Buc‑ee’s effect. What a Texas gas station taught Julie about brand, consistency, and operational brilliance.In the NewsSmall Team, Big Impact: A Solo Marketer's Guide to Maximizing OutcomesAI‑Generated Content Doesn’t Hurt Google RankingsInstagram Content Will Now Be Searchable on Google

Brian Boero, co-founder and CEO of 1000Watt, joins Kevin Oakley for a punchy, high-frequency conversation on how home builders can (and should) learn from the broader real estate world. With decades of insight from both agents and consumers, Brian brings a unique lens to current challenges, and opportunities, for builders navigating 2025’s volatile market.This episode previews Brian’s upcoming talk at the Online Sales & Marketing Summit, pulling from his research, fieldwork, and no-BS branding instincts to spark fresh perspective on how to break from the herd, build trust with brokers, and tap into what today’s buyers actually want.Break the Pattern Before It Breaks YouBuilders that mimic competitors become the slowest zebraA standout product means nothing if no one can tell it’s differentBuyers Want Freedom, Agents Want HelpGen Z wants a home they can paint and own, not just a good dealAgents are tired, anxious, and open to new kinds of partnershipsListen now to get Brian’s take on off-MLS strategy, how to craft ads that actually move people, and why “get off my lawn” might be the most powerful copy you write this year.