Market Proof Marketing

Host Kevin Oakley is joined by Jackie Lipinski and Beth Russell for a deep dive into the difference between strategy and intent, the tradeoffs that rule the day, and what you learn from failure.From timeless struggles with SEO, content creation strategy, and letting sales teams be marketers, to the timely news of Redfin's CEO departure and the reigning YouTube SEO advantage, this episode covers wide territory your marketing team needs to know to succeed. Tune in and take notes!Story TimeJackie - An A/B test proves you don’t propose on the first dateBeth - With events, a theme is not a game planKevin - A tale of two seasons (and one counterintuitive winner)In the NewsGlenn Kelman leaves Redfin after 20 years as CEOWhy You Shouldn’t Let Your Onsite Team Create ContentYouTube is no longer optional for SEO in the age of AI OverviewsThe case for and against influencer-led Super Bowl ads

Kevin Oakley is joined by Julie Jarnagin and Caroline Collard for a wide-ranging conversation about the complexities builders can’t escape.From early-year trends to Texas growth markets to President Trump’s latest comments on housing policy, the team leans into the nuance builders actually have to navigate so marketers can face down their challenges with increased clarity and control.Special announcement Guest episodes come with a new charity gift twist in 2026- send in your guest recommendations and nominations to show@doyouconvert.com. Story TimeCaroline - Growth at DYC and how great marketers are built over timeJulie - Parenting in an NYC subway leads to lessons on patience and pacingKevin - A “brilliant” example of what can happen when experts don’t understand the systems they’re rewiringIn the News2026 PPC Trends to get ahead of nowTexas Triangle drives future of single family homebuilding Trump threatens to ban institutional investors from buying single-family homes

Host Kevin Oakley joins Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell for a timely conversation about what’s worth your effort in 2026. From Google audience size changes to alleged customer journey changes, this episode is all about right-sizing, prioritizing, and knowing when to say no. If your 2026 to-do list is already growing out of control, this episode will help you find optimal grip on what really matters for your marketing.Story TimeBeth - It's Barbs, not bots, that make difficult processes easy and enjoyableJulie - Catch the excitement that crests in January and turn it into something lastingKevin - When the first 4,000 leads don't work out, do you keep going?In the NewsGoogle lowers audience size limits across AdsMarketing Loves Declaring the End of Things That Still Work The User Journey Isn’t Linear Anymore: It’s Always On

Kevin Oakley, Julie Jarnagin, and Jackie Lipinski are starting 2026 off with fresh takes in this year’s first episode. They discuss multiple mindset hangups, including how to get out of the “cleaning the windows while the house is burning” trap. The team also dives into some of the biggest tech moves and platform plays (or rather replays?) that are sure to shape what happens in 2026. Listen and learn to start your year right.Story TimeJulie – Less is more again this yearJackie – The mindset shift needed for post-peak performanceKevin – The age-old tug of war in company visions must be acknowledged before it can be improvedIn the NewsGoogle’s real estate listings ‘experiment’ sends Zillow shares down more than 8%Google Enters the Portal WarsMeta Is Considering Charging Business Pages To Post Links

Kevin Oakley welcomes Trevor Bacon, Chief Executive Officer of Parcl and Parcl Labs, to examine how real-time real estate data and market-based signals are changing the way housing markets are interpreted. Drawing on financial-market frameworks applied to residential real estate, Trevor explains why traditional pricing indexes often lag reality and how alternative signals—like sentiment and probability—can offer earlier insight. The conversation invites builders and housing leaders to think more critically about timing, risk, and how market narratives are formed.Key ThemesReal-Time Pricing vs. Backward-Looking Housing DataMost housing data describes where the market was, not where risk and opportunity are forming nextIf pricing moves faster than reporting, how many decisions are already outdated by the time they’re made?Treating housing like a slow-moving asset may be the most dangerous assumption builders still holdPrediction Markets and the Future of Market SignalsMarkets reveal more truth when people put capital behind beliefs, not opinionsWhat would change if builders watched probability and sentiment instead of headlines and forecasts?The next competitive advantage may come from understanding expectations, not just transactionsFollow Trevor, Parcel Labs, and Learn MoreTrevor Bacon on LinkedInJason Lewris on LinkedInTampa's Hidden Supply Pipeline: Land Banking Fuels Mounting Market Pressure

Julie Jarnagin, Beth Russell, and Caroline Collard discuss end of year plans, trends, and truths. From major brands’ flops to risky tactics built on good science, the team helps marketers chart a path through end of year planning that leans into what works and away from fads that will only dilute brand reputation in the year ahead.Story TimeBeth – With costs top of mind, buyers need a vision before they’ll fall in love with a homeCaroline – Write down your goals now before the year ahead buries them in busy-nessJulie – Goldilocks-ing content plans for 2026: finding the just-right-ness between structure and flexibilityIn the NewsWhat View/Save Ratios Reveal About Buyer Engagement on Real Estate PortalsMcDonald’s Pulls Down AI-Generated Holiday Ad After Deluge of MockeryBrands look to experiential marketing as antidote to AI slop, digital fatigueNegativity Bias: Why Customers Don’t Want Anything To Do With You (And What To Do About It)Google updates links in AI Mode and expands Web Guide test in all tab

Kevin Oakley and Jackie Lipinski welcome a very special guest into the podcast studio. Caroline Collard is Do You Convert’s newest Marketing Coach, manages the Marketing Strategist team, and is lauded as DYC’s digital strategy secret weapon. With Caroline’s keen perspective in the mix, the team discusses end-of-year campaigns, video trends, 2026 market forecasts, and whether OpenAI goes from red to dead as Google surges ahead. From consumer data use tactics to the trust gained from putting in real work, they share insights on the latest marketing trends and updates, giving homebuilder marketers room to reflect on the strength of their own consumer-facing signals and strategies headed into 2026.Story TimeCaroline – Spotify Wrapped data assumptions: the good, the bad, and the funnyJackie – Brand promos are wearing out their holiday welcome in Jackie’s text messagesKevin – Kevin yearns for signals of effort that grow weaker as simulated intelligence replaces effortful thinkingIn the NewsOpenAI hits pause on ChatGPT ads as CEO declares a ‘code red’Publishers turn to vertical video to compete with creators and grow ad revenue in 2026Zillow economists say the housing market will warm up in 2026, with more sales and modest price growth

Kevin Oakley joins Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell to discuss the delta between a booming business and simply sending too-busy signals to buyers. The team reflects on why built-in distance through the use of automation and chatbots is bad for business.If solving for attribution headaches, automation concerns, and leveraging limited budget across the right platforms are on your end of year to-do list, this episode will help reveal what matters most to your buyers right now.Special AnnouncementsJust a couple seats left for January’s Market Proof Marketing Academy - don’t wait until it’s too late to save your spot!If you manage Online Sales too, OSA and OSAL are coming up in early 2026 too. Check them out today!Story TimeBeth – Tales from the home-search front: back-in-market woes made worse by AI searchJulie – Doorbusters aren’t busting like they used to, but homebuilder marketers can create urgency where retail lost the plotKevin – Are you sure you can’t respond to everyone who wants to do business with you?In the NewsSellers are taking their homes off the market at the fastest pace in nearly a decadePew: 84% Of Adults Use YouTube As Platform Growth ContinuesThe Pinball Customer Journey Has Replaced the Marketing Funnel

Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell on this special Thanksgiving edition to tackle the challenges marketers face in a world overflowing with information and AI slop.From breaking out of narrow thinking to sparking authentic connections with your audience, they share practical ways to transform your marketing by starting with the underlying thoughts that ultimately shape strategy. Learn how to stand out, ignite that spark, and stay ahead before an avalanche of AI noise drowns out your message.Story TimeBeth - Can a brain scientist teach marketers how to avoid categorical thinking traps?Julie - A school tour sheds light on building a great onsite experienceIn the NewsMeta's AI tools are going rogue and churning out some very strange adsAdobe to buy Semrush for $1.9 billionAs AI slop spreads on social media, brands have lessons to learn

Kevin Oakley, Julie Jarnagin, and Jackie Lipinski discuss why great marketing is less about the message and more about the moment. From anniversaries to fishing lures to funnel metrics, the takeaway is the same: your audience determines your strategy. The right nuance can change everything.Special AnnouncementsMarket Proof Marketing Academy 2026 enrollment is nearly full. With fresh curriculum and expanded expert sessions, grab your spot now.Story TimeJulie - Who cares about 100 years? And how? And why?Jackie - An apparent a-fish-ionado, Jackie shares how her lure strategy relates to changing bait in digital advertising Kevin - Funneling more of nothing (good) still gets you nothingIn the NewsChatGPT Ads Are Coming — and They Won’t Look Like Google AdsThe Starbucks “Bearista” Cup Craze: When Product Drops Become Cultural EventsMeta to launch no-ads subscriptions in the UK

Host Kevin Oakley joins Jackie Lipinski in the studio to discuss technology, change, and the inevitability of pain. Kevin shares cogent examples (like choosing not to participate in a bad economy through a 500% tip) to illuminate counterintuitive mindset moves to keep builders moving forward. From the struggles that shape resilience to the real story of search data for builders, this episode is a reminder that you don’t have to internalize the valley, or the narrative.Story TimeJackie – Pain points and growth spurts look the same in retrospectKevin – If seemingly constant change has you reaching for more control, choose focus over fakesIn the NewsPost to Google Business Profiles: An Untapped Realm in the Building IndustryOctober 2025 Monthly Housing Market TrendsScams at ScaleState of Search Q3 2025

Nick Aufenkamp, founder of DIY Home Buyer Academy, joins Kevin Oakley to explore how transparency, data, and evolving buyer agency are rewriting the rules of real estate. Kevin and Nick share surprising takes on the current and future state of the Zillow + ChatGPT partnership. From start to finish, this episode is brimming with insights on what happens when buyers start leading the process themselves.AI & the Mirror EffectTech is giving us a mirror; turn it into a mapNew tools are revealing what buyers actually trust and whyNick’s own emotional arc with Zillow’s ChatGPT experiment: from frustration to fascinationAgency After the NAR SettlementThe settlement flipped on the lights, yet shadows from the past still lingerWhy buyers now want (and expect) more control in every transactionHow builders can back empowered buyers without burning agent bridgesFollow Nick on LinkedIn and Youtube:https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickaufenkamp/https://www.youtube.com/@DIYHomebuyer

Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski to explore what today’s challenges can teach marketers about grit, growth, and grace. From marketing merit badges to limiting factors, they discuss the perspective and strategy builders need to finish the year strong.Special AnnouncementsMarket Proof Marketing Academy 2026 is open for registration! A high-energy, hands-on virtual event designed to fast-track marketing mastery for homebuilder marketers. Space is limited - save your spot before it’s gone.Story TimeBeth – Redefining wins beyond sales and measuring momentum that moves the business forwardJackie – Three quotes to keep every recovering perfectionist grounded and thrivingJulie – Leadership means being the calm in Q4In the Newshttps://www.doyouconvert.com/blog/the-limiting-factor-to-sales-results/Zillow Pulls Matterport Tours from Listings (Blames CoStar)10 Surprising Takeaways from the Minds of Today’s Homebuyer Google Officially Shuts Down Privacy Sandbox 

On this bonus episode, Qadra Evans, Director of Industry & Partner Engagement at Zillow, joins host Kevin Oakley for a look inside how one of the most-used housing platforms is adjusting to new demands in buyer behavior, builder engagement, and affordability. This conversation breaks down what’s evolving and how builders can interpret the signals.Tools That Reflect the MomentFrom dream browsing to financial fit: affordability filters get realListings trends are shifting from static to cinematic (and the scroll times prove it)Signals from the Buyer SideThe new new construction buyer: Gen Z (and their parents)Which considerations are rising fast in buyer decision-making?

Kevin Oakley joins Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell for conversations on ChatGPT considerations, Sora’s impact, shutdown shockwaves, and Halloween costumes. Whether you love or hate the rapid pace of change lately, this episode dives into the major shifts shaping the market and more.Special announcementsInterest in the January Market Proof Marketing Academy is at an all-time high, with a record number of people on the list. Tickets go live this week, so make sure to grab your spot before it’s full! You can find out at the link above.Key TopicsOpenAI’s newest feature - Is the “app within the app” ahead of its time or an empty gimmick?A sea of content - Questioning the repercussions of AI’s explosive growth in video content creationFurloaned - How to prepare for the extended consequences of the current government shutdownListen in and send us your thoughts and questions. 

Fresh from the Summit, Kevin Oakley sits down with Rachel Spaugh for Office Hours to debrief on what stood out most. From how AI is reshaping content to how marketers can hand off great ideas to sales without losing trust, this one’s all about clarity, compression, and exerting creative control without chaos.

Host Kevin Oakley joins Julie Jarnagin and Jackie Lipinski to unpack the newest AI experiments, marketing shifts, and growth mindsets shaping 2026 and beyond. From Meta’s surreal new playground to the delicate relationship between builder breakthroughs and removing “limiting factors,” this episode looks at how curiosity and clarity drive progress, even when tech or timelines get in the way. Special AnnouncementsThe next Market Proof Marketing Academy is just around the corner, but the waitlist is already almost full! If you want in on this unique opportunity to learn from DYC’s best and brightest - regardless of whether your builder works with Do You Convert - this is your chance. Seize the moment before the last few spots are gone.Key Topics DiscussedDoes the future belong to fewer, bigger players?Love the growth leaps, but remember to value every stepFever dream frontiers - is Meta wooing creators or consumers?Weighing the privacy costs of the “customized everything” digital dreamIn the NewsCompass to acquire Anywhere, creating world's largest brokerageMeta "Vibes" is released - will anyone care?Advertising in 2030

In this solo episode, Kevin Oakley takes you inside the room at a recent ULI panel. Builders, sales leaders, and consultants gathered to debate the toughest questions facing the industry, and Kevin is pulling back the curtain to share exactly what he was asked and how he answered.Here are the five big questions he tackled:Beyond discounts: what really drives buyer traffic?Online sales: speed or personalization?Resale vs. new: who wins when rates drop?The holy grail: is it possible to achieve volume and margin?2026: what’s ahead for builders?Listen in for unfiltered answers that challenge assumptions, spotlight bold strategies, and point to the realities shaping the immediate future of homebuilding.

Kevin Oakley and Rachel Spaugh are back in the studio for another round of Office Hours. In this episode, their discussion on AI, uncertainty, and messaging uncovers how to approach everything from fear to facts. Together they break down what to do when you need credibility and what's more powerful than certainty in your messaging right now.Tune in to learnHow your leaders think you’re using AI vs how you should be using itWhy objections aren’t the problem you think they areHear Kevin build an end of year campaign theme on the spot

In this episode, host Kevin Oakley is joined by guest Kim Sandoval, Director of Corporate Marketing for Classic Homes. Together they discuss Kim's nonlinear career path in homebuilder marketing, revealing salient reminders not to box in yourself, your career, or your company's growth with narrow thinking. As Kevin and Kim share the gift of retrospect clarity, both of their histories serve as needed reminders that every great success story has periods of expansion and contraction - on multiple levels. Reminder: You + Kim + Chicago = Even More Influential Leadership LessonsListeners attending the 2025 Online Sales and Marketing Summit in Chicago in just two short weeks will have the chance to hear from Kim and other leaders live in Beth Russell's panel session, Everything the Light Touches is Yours: Real World Influence from Marketing Leaders. You won't want to miss this chance to hear Kim and her powerhouse peers dive deeper into real wins and lessons learned.Key TopicsGrowth is Not Linear - How Kim pivoted from agency-side builder experience, to consulting for builders, before finally going all-in on one culture that captured her heartStay the Course - The crucial advice she has for everyone doubting this market right now, pulled straight from her time striking out on her own to serve builders during the 2008 recessionFind Your Fit - Ideas and encouragement on where to find your perfect fit, even if it lands you in an unexpected seat or an entirely different part of the business