Associations NOW Presents

In this episode of Associations NOW Presents, guest hosts Steven Stout, CAE, FASAE, and Katy Markert from Better By Association lead a timely discussion with Mary Kate Cunningham, CAE, Chief Public and Governance Officer at ASAE, and Jarrod Clabaugh, CAE, President and CEO of the Ohio Society of Association Professionals. They explore the potential impacts of upcoming tax reforms on associations and nonprofits, including the expiration of the 2017 Jobs Act provisions and new threats under UBIT. The conversation emphasizes the critical role of coalition-building, advocacy, and grassroots efforts to protect the sector. They also discuss strategies for engaging lawmakers and preview ASAE's upcoming fly-in event, focused on lobbying against adverse tax policies.   Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/3gSTzeScv7Q   Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Steven Stout  0:04   Welcome everyone to Associations NOW Presents, an original podcast produced by the American Society of Association Executives. Today, sitting in front of the mic is myself, Steven Stout with the Texas Society of Association Executives, alongside my colleague and friend Katy Markert, who will be serving as your guest co-hosts for today's episode. Katy Markert  0:22   Hi everyone. I'm Katy Markert, also with TSAE, and we are so thrilled to be here with you today. Usually, Steven and I are on our own podcast, as he mentioned, Better by Association, produced by TSAE. And on our podcast, we refer to our listeners as "100-Percenters," because, as you probably know, association executives give 100% of themselves all the time. So you might hear us refer to that today. And I want everyone to know.  Steven Stout  0:49   Absolutely. So all those listeners hearing us for the first time, welcome to the 100- Percenter family. And for those who found us here from our other podcast, welcome back.  Katy Markert  0:58   Welcome back. Normally, I know we're used to speaking to what we think is just Texans, but I'm really excited that this is a national stage Steven.  Steven Stout  1:07   Agreed. We sometimes have listeners in Australia, China and the Netherlands. So being here makes total sense. Were you nervous about being here today Katy?  Katy Markert  1:16   What's funny is I wasn't until I heard that we were going to be on camera, and then all of a sudden, I got a little bit nervous, but usually we don't do that, but I don't mind. I'm just pretending that's not happening. And I don't know. I think after this, we've completed two seasons of our podcast, and I think I started off a little more nervous, but the more we've done in it, the more I realized we just have really great conversations, and I always learn something. And it's really lowered that kind of nervousness level for me. I really don't think about it too much, but what about you? I don't know. I'm starting. I'm getting the vibe that maybe you're you feel opposite. Steven Stout  1:51   Yeah, I was a little nervous. No, to be honest with you, I changed my shirt three times. I did the teenager thing in the closet, like I went through things and was like, "I have nothing to wear. I hate all my clothes." I was nervous. But now we think you said we've done this so much that it it feels like home when we get to do stuff like this. But the point of all this is that we are happy to be with you today, and thanks for having us.  Katy Markert  2:11   Yes, absolutely. Now, Steven, we are recording this the second week of December, right before the holidays in 2024 and we all just came out of Thanksgiving with our families and loved ones. Yes, and typically, at Thanksgiving, I just, I love my family. I just want to say that about how to say there is that one question that I get a little nervous is going to come up. Do you know the question I'm talking about?   Steven Stout  2:37   Why can't you be more like your sister, Sharon? Is that the one?  Katy Markert  2:43   It probably should be. But no, the question I'm thinking of has a lot more to do with politics, as we know should never bring that up in the holidays, and in particular this year, I was worried about the who did you vote for question?  Steven Stout  2:55   Oh yeah, that is a sticky one at family gatherings.  Katy Markert  2:58   It can be now, perhaps we can sidestep that question here, but there are some more important issues tied to politics that we should all be keeping a close eye on in the association space, no matter who you voted for.  Steven Stout  3:10   That's right. And today we are diving into one of those topics, and that is tax reform. Katy Markert  3:15   That's right. And luckily, we get to ask the questions and not answer them, because this is actually going to be complex in 2025 today, we are speaking with Mary Kate Cunningham, CAE, Chief Public and Governance Officer with ASAE.  Steven Stout  3:29   Alongside my colleague and bestie from Ohio, Jared Clabaugh, CAE, president and CEO with the Ohio Society of Association Professionals. Welcome guys.  Mary Kate Cunningham  3:40   Thanks for having us.  Steven Stout  3:41   Yeah, thanks for joining us today as we guest co host this podcast. Now, on our podcast, we always ask the same question to our guests, and we're taking the opportunity the same here. So our first question, it's an easy one, I promise. What is your fall-in story? How did you fall into the industry? As we all know, a lot of us did not go to school for this. We found this industry and fell in love with it and stayed so we'd love to hear your fallen stories and how you came across our space.  Mary Kate Cunningham  4:07   I can share that I worked on the Hill, and then I was at a think tank and struggling with kind of the lack of action sometimes that you have at think tanks. And my roommate from college, Beth Palmisano, worked in marketing at ASAE, and that is how I found ASAE, 12 and a half years ago. Steven Stout  4:22   Oh my gosh, wow. So you have your college roommate to thank for all this.  Mary Kate Cunningham  4:26   Absolutely, yes.  Steven Stout  4:27   I'm not sure I've ever thanked my college roommate for anything. So that's nice that your college roommate did something nice for you. And Jared, what about you? Jarrod Clabaugh  4:34   A buddy of mine actually worked for a newspaper here in Columbus, and he heard about a job offering with the Ohio Restaurant Association. They were looking for a communications director. In my life, I've only eaten in restaurants, never worked in one. So I thought, "What could I bring to that role? "And another college friend said to me, it's basically a PR job for an association, and that was almost 15 years ago, and that led to service on the Ohio Society of Association Professionals board, which led to me running the show here nine years later. Steven Stout  5:07   So you both have your college roommates to thank for your introduction to the space. Jarrod Clabaugh  5:11   Mine is a fellow RA and I'm not sure if he made the offer to help me out or to just give me a different perspective on going from real estate to something as sexy and as exciting as association management. Katy Markert  5:24   That's wonderful. We love that you guys made it into this industry, and we get to talk to you today. Now that we've got the softball question out of the way, it's time to get into what we're here to talk about. I just want to dive right in. So how will the expiration of the 2017 Jobs Act provision impact associations, particularly concerning UBIT compliance and potential new tax liabilities.  Steven Stout  5:48   A real soft want to get us started. Jarrod Clabaugh  5:50   Yeah, speaking of those sexy questions, yeah.  Katy Markert  5:55   Mary Kate, can you kick us off?  Mary Kate Cunningham  5:57   Sure, yeah. So I'm happy to talk about how much is at stake next year and why associations need to be at the table. There are a few bills that have major provisions that are expiring and well, the tax cuts and Jobs Act is one of them. There is, let's see, almost 10 trillion in proposed policies on the table, but there are a huge number of tax exemptions that are expiring at the end of next year. So that's why Congress has to act. We say Congress only acts when there's a deadline, and sometimes not even when there's a deadline, and this is going to be next year, the Super Bowl of tax there is the individual rates and the corporate rates that may change. And Congress is looking for a lot of revenue, and they're looking in every sector and profession, and that's why we're really concerned about the assistance community and not being a pay for this type of legislation. Steven Stout  6:47   And then why did they suddenly start focusing on associations, or the 501, C community? I should say Mary Kate Cunningham  6:54   So, there was two tax policy reports that came out in the summer, one from the Tax Foundation and one from Cato, and they are listing out all the different ways that associations are exempt, and they're advocating for taxing the entire 501, C community at the corporate rate. So it is really concerning. One is Tax Foundation, and one is from Cato, and we knew we were going to be prepared for a tax site next year, along with everyone else, but we didn't know that we were going to be specifically targeted to really have all non donation revenue be taxed at the corporate rate, which is right now, 21% that could change. So it's probably the biggest threat to associations in 30 years. Jarrod Clabaugh  7:37   There's also a threat, possibly, to what it could look like in regard to endowments, some of the lawmakers have mentioned that endowment should be taxed at the 35% rate as well, and that would obviously impact a lot of nonprofit organizations. Mary Kate Cunningham  7:51   Absolutely  Steven Stout  7:53   Jared you as a state group, you see this as a concern for you as well, obviously. Jarrod Clabaugh  7:58   We do, and we're trying

In this episode of Associations NOW Presents, guest host KiKi L'Italien, host of Association Chat, leads a conversation with award-winning leaders Lori Anderson, President and CEO of the International Sign Association, and Debra BenAvram, CEO of the Association for the Advancement of Blood and Biotherapies. The conversation delves into authentic leadership, highlighting the importance of amplifying women’s voices and fostering community within the association world. Lori and Debra share their personal leadership journeys, reflecting on pivotal moments, influential mentors, and the lessons they’ve learned along the way. Topics include overcoming challenges, the value of mentorship and peer networks, and the significance of foresight in navigating leadership complexities. They also discuss strategies for maintaining personal growth and resilience, with practical insights on mindfulness and intentional time management. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/bhWVK64OpzQ?feature=shared   Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript   KiKi L'Italien  00:00 Welcome to the Associations NOW Presents podcast, I'm your guest host, KiKi L'Italien, and if you're thinking, "Hey, I know that name or I know that voice," you're right. It's because you usually hear me over at Association Chat. But today, I'm excited to be hosting this special episode of Associations NOW Presents, because we're continuing this powerful conversation that really started at what's called ASAE's The Exchange. And this is a women's leadership event that is really special, and our focus today to continue on this discussion is authentic leadership. We're talking about authentic leadership, the power of women's voices, and how we can build a supportive community in the association space. So joining me are two inspiring, award winning leaders, Lori Anderson, President and CEO of the International Sign Association, and Debra BenAvram, CEO of Association for the Advancement of Blood and Biotherapies. So I want to just do this, and start out at the very start, to just say congratulations, because, as I understand it, even though you've both won awards before, you have just recently been recognized, Lori as 2025 Trade Association Executive of the Year, and Debra, you were recognized as a 2025 Professional Society Association Executive of the Year. Congratulations to both of you. 01:33 Thank you so much KiKi L'Italien  01:34 Yes, it's really amazing to be here. And I have to say, I have followed your work for many years and watched you in this space, recognized leaders. And so what I thought we could do today is just start off by talking about your personal journeys into leadership, because I know that each path is unique. Definitely in the association industry, there can be many different ways that we get to where we are, but I'm sure that there are shared experiences that have shaped both of you. So I thought what we would do is maybe start with what inspired you to step into these leadership roles. So were there pivotal moments or mentors who helped guide you along the way? So Debra, I'm starting with you. What about it? What made you decide to step into this leadership role in the first place?  Debra BenAvram  02:25 Thanks you so much, KiKi. I would love to tell you that I had this grand plan from the age of five to become a leader and to do it by this age and set all those goals. That's really never been my style. So when I was thinking about what sort of led me to this moment, I think what I might have been was not savvy enough to realize that I wasn't supposed to ask questions or ask permission, and just always threw myself into opportunities. My last organization, when there was a clear need for a new strategic plan or a new area that we needed staff leadership in, I raised my hand and but I did that by doing it, and I think that, for better or worse, led me to have lots of different experiences that I didn't know maybe I wasn't supposed to have or be asking for. And when the CEO role opened up at that organization, I had this out-of-body moment where the board was telling me that the position was now open, and I said, "I'm right here. Why don't you put me in that role?" And that was not particularly characteristic of me, but it is what ended up happening. I applied for the role and took it, and what inspired me was that I saw I could be the change. I saw what change could be. I saw what possibilities were. And I love the power of associations and bringing people together. And I think we do that with our staff, and we do that with our volunteers and our members. I just love that. It was really inspired. And I wanted the opportunity to do more, to keep throwing my hat in and keep bringing that forward and growing the business and growing the value that we were delivering to our members. And I loved what I did there, and I got to, now, get to do that at a different organization, in terms of what maybe mentors or who inspire me. A pivotal moment for me in terms of putting myself around the right colleagues was at an ASAE Annual Meeting shortly after I became CEO. So this is going back long time and Arlene Pietranton and the late John Graham led a round table for young CEOs—because I used to be a young CEO—and there were not so many of us at that time, but we sat around this table, and I got to see not only meet colleagues, some of whom today are among my very best friends, both within the association, community and personally. But I got to see what it looked like to be a giving colleague and to be around colleagues like Arlene and John, who were just freely sharing their experiences that moment in time which I can see in my head as I'm telling you this story that led me to recognize I needed to get into peer groups because I was reinventing wheels, and I was alone. No matter what level of leader you are, you're alone in some way, shape or form. And very quickly, I got myself into a few different peer groups and tried them out. And some fit, some didn't. And I learned how to build a community, a kitchen cabinet of people that I could learn from that were similar to me, that were different from me, that had more experience or less experience than me. And that gift, really, that got from what I learned from ASAE colleagues—whether I did that within the framework of ASAE or not—that is what I really credit the rest of my career journey to this day is being in this community and building peer networks within it that I can learn from with, be vulnerable with and learn from each other's experiences. KiKi L'Italien  06:16 When you are talking about that, it resonates so much, because I think, what if we didn't have some of these important connections that we had made? And it really is, you can get so much further when you have those relationships in place, and you can ask the questions and get the information that you need, or make the connections that you need to in order to advance. How about you, Lori? What about for you? What was your story? Lori Anderson  06:43 That's a has some similarities to Debra, when my very first career was a teacher. And I knew I didn't want to do that forever. And I quit without any plan, and that was terrifying. So I look back at the things that have helped me grow. It's that I do things that are scary, but I ask for help, and asking for help is critical. I found a career coach because I literally had no idea what I wanted to do, and I remember the restaurant we were in. I remember the table we were in, and he asked me a pivotal question that changed my life. And the question was, "What gets you hot? What gets you mad? What gets you boiling?" And at the time, it had to do with politics, whoever was in office at the time. And he said, "Why don't you do something there?" And I went, "I can't do that. I'm a former music teacher." And he goes, "Why not?" And it got me thinking, why not. And it took me nine months to convince a member of Congress to hire a former music teacher. And it was scary. Those nine months I didn't have a job, and all of a sudden I was in a position of doing something that I was just really passionate about, and people would be coming and lobbying me. And I thought maybe I could do that. So then I started looking at getting a lobbying job, and I happened to land in an association where the Vice President of Government Relations was also involved in music. So there was this music connection, I think he sang for the Kennedy Center Choir or something like that. And his wife was a music teacher, so we had that weird connection right away. And he was such a mentor, and he threw me into like Deb, gave me challenges, and just saw what was in me, that I wasn't just a former music teacher, right? I had a lot to offer, and he kept challenging me and giving me assignments that I thought I could never do, but he also encouraged me to join, and in this particular association, there was no other member of ASAE, and it was a large Association, and I joined ASAE, I joined Women in Government Relations. I joined WGR Toastmasters. I honed my speaking abilities, and those connections got me where I am. In fact, the recruiter who called me for my current position knew I was looking through WGR Toastmasters, and she recommended to the recruiter to call me. It's all about connections. It's all about finding people. And when I started at ISA, I needed new connections. I wasn't really in government affairs anymore. I was in a leadership role. I joined CEO groups. Debra and I met in a CEO group, and then we ended up on the as a board together at the same time. And so our leadership paths followed. That the importance of reaching out and connecting to other folks. And even now, there's not a question I get. What do I do with this particular problem? You have a group of people, groups of people who can help answer the question, and that's the beauty of associations, because everyone's willing

In this episode of Associations NOW Presents, guest host Lowell Aplebaum, EdD, FASAE, CAE, CPF, from Association Rockstars, continues the conversation on workforce development in the association space. He speaks with Eduardo Arabu, CEO of the National Hispanic Corporate Council, and Justin Bradley Reyes, membership manager at the Latino Corporate Directors Association. They discuss the importance of creating safe, inclusive spaces, the value of mentorship and sponsorship, and the role of proactive networking in fostering equitable professional growth through associations. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/dRs0LFsHltE   This episode is sponsored by Visit Omaha.   Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript   Lowell Aplebaum  0:03   Greetings everyone. Welcome to episode three of Associations NOW Presents, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. It's my pleasure to be with you. My name is Lowell Aplebaum. Typically, you'll catch me as host of Association Rockstars. It is my pleasure and my honor to be the host of this episode today, which is a part two, as we look into workforce development as our theme. We'd like to thank our episode sponsor Visit Omaha for their support of this podcast. And if you've not yet listened to part one of this two part series on workforce development, we'll be right here. Lowell Aplebaum  0:39   So go on, take a listen and come on back for our conversation today. And we are excited to have two wise, wise individuals from our community for our conversation today. For each of you all, just give a brief introduction, a sentence about certainly your name and your organization, but I'd love for to hear each of you introduce yourselves, if you will, with a little bit about your own professional journey, right? So we think about workforce development, what developed you in the workforce? And today's conversation is going to have a large focus on network and community and relationships. So feel free to put into your own journey story, any critical relationships that were really important to your own journey along the way. And so let's first start Eduardo Arabu is the CEO the National Hispanic Corporate Council and the Latino DEI Collective. Eduardo. You want to tell us a little bit about yourself and your own journey? Eduardo Arabu  1:38   Yes, absolutely. Thank you Lowell for that wonderful introduction. I'm thrilled to be here and be a part of this conversation with my colleague Justin Reyes as well. A little bit about myself. Yes, I am the CEO at the National Hispanic Corporate Council, that organization focused on helping Fortune companies on their competitiveness and corporate performance around workplace and marketplace strategy. And so we work with major Fortune 1000 companies are under Hispanic and Latino strategy for talent, customer, supplier, community relations and their employee resource group as well. The Latino DEI Collective focuses on amplifying, cultivating and elevating Latino DEI practitioner. So Chief Diversity Officer, Vice President of Diversity Equity and Inclusion, not only in Fortune company, but government, nonprofit, sports and many other sectors as well. I'm based in Chicago. My background is Venezuelan. I consider myself bicultural. So was born in Venezuela, but grew up in Chicago, Illinois. I spent about seven years in Washington, D.C., as well. I think my career trajectory to where I'm at is a little bit unorthodox. Many of you in the association space, we didn't sign up for it. We were voluntold to put you into it, and here we are. My background consisted of corporate functions, HR and government affairs, public policy. I have my time in Washington, D.C., and so more of a business public policy background also works in sports and Government Affairs and many other functions as well. One unique opportunity that I had was to complete a fellowship with the Congressional Hispanic Leadership Institute, where I had a chance to go to Washington, D.C., working corporate affairs and government affairs as well. As we mentioned, relationship, the executive director of the Congressional Hispanic Leadership Institute, when I did my fellowship forward several years, was the executive director at the National Hispanic Corporate Council. So we're emphasizing on relationship. My time as a fellow in that program, go on to go to work in force and go to pursue a Master's Degree in Public Policy at Carnegie Mellon. End up back in Washington, D.C., and I get a phone call from then executive director at CHLI now executive director at NHCC, and he taught me to be the number two person, right hand person to support the National Hispanic Corporate Council. Five years later, the board promoted me to Executive Director, then CEO, and ever since then, been looking for ways to contribute, collaborate, into the association sector and give, take, learn, connect, learn, all those wonderful opportunities as well. Lowell Aplebaum  4:21   Excellent. Thank you. And our second, no less distinguished, wise thought leader for today. Justin Bradley Reyes, is the membership manager for Latinos Corporate Directors Association. Justin, why don't you tell us a little bit about your journey? Justin Bradley Reyes  4:36   How do you Lowell or Hola, as I'm trying to implement into my vocabulary, especially in the tune of Hispanic Heritage Month. But as you mentioned, my name is Justin Bradley Reyes. I'm the membership manager at the Latino Corporate Directors Association, and have been privileged to hold this role within LCDA over the last couple of years, almost three years and everything membership, managing membership, recruiting Latino talent, developing our regional networking, engagement with our members in the field, and just ultimately, just empowering members to utilize the resources the network, the people at LCDA, to amplify their journey to corporate board. A little bit about LCDA before I dive into myself. LCDA has been fully functional for about 10 years, and the mission of the organization is to create a pipeline for Latino talent, Latino executives, the creme de la creme of corporate America into serving on corporate boards. There's a ton of data out there. Feel free to visit latinocorporatedirectors.org. But just a little snippet is the fact of the matter is with the US population of Latinos, at about 20% of the US population. Latino representation on corporate boards, specifically within Fortune 1000 companies, is at about 5% and so our mission is typically to create a pipeline so that we can reach parity and ultimately support corporate organizations to create a network where they may not have a Latino executive in hopes to elevate the deep pool of Latino talent that does exist, unfortunately they may not have the network to get to that point again as a membership manager, day in, day out, it's been a privilege to be a part of an ecosystem of highly accomplished Latinos, first NASA astronaut and later director of NASA, Dr Ellen Ochoa, a powerhouse attorney, Roel Campos. You have individuals like Marty Chavez who are on the alphabet board. It's just phenomenal that I have the chance to work in support of these individuals. Although I'm not a corporate America expert, through my role as a membership manager, I'm able to contribute to the machine that is LCDA. Now, over the last nine years, I've made a career in association management, or as I tell some folks, I'm in the acronym business. So whether it's the national association home builders, NHB, ABC, NASDA, now, LCDA, I've had the opportunity to be a part of something much larger than who I am. It allows me to scale the impact of my work beyond where I call home, and it's really because I have an inborn fondness for associations that merge public and private partnerships to uncover solutions for whatever industry that they serve. And so that's just been a phenomenal journey, and it all started with an organization called NASDA, National Association of State Departments of Agriculture shortly after graduating from college, with the intention to teach in the classroom, which I did. But just before that, I had a brief sit in DC where I had the opportunity to attend congressional meetings and just interact with these senior policy officials around agriculture. A few months before that, I was working in the fields of South Texas wearing boots and jeans and a cowboy hat and just working my butt off, just lots of manual labor, and then shifting to a setting with suits and policy, it just really transformed my outlook in life and expanded the horizon that I have in terms of what can I do, not just in education, but professionally. And it was so infectious that two years later, I decided, let's make this a full time gig. So after working two years in the classroom, started with NHB, and been all downhill since then. I am Latino, a Mexican-American distend. But of course, being from Texas, being proud Texan, I am Tejano, which for the audience, if you don't know what that is, it's an individual of Mexican-American descent, born in Texas. So thought to be a little extra there. But anyway, small town in Texas. My family is multi-generational American but really the back load of my family is we're ranchers, we're farmers, we're cowboys, and so it was really a great to be a part of that. But again, fast forward today. I now call Charlotte, North Carolina home with my wife, a government affairs professional with Lowe's, who used to be a trade association professional, as well as my niece Raylene, and, of course, my two fur babies, Bailey and Begonia. Lowell Aplebaum  9:12   Thank you. In both of your journeys, there is this aspect and this element of network and community. And so as we're thinking about workforce development, I want to talk about that for a little bit. I want to talk about from two or three angles. So the first let's talk about for the responsibil

In this episode of Associations NOW Presents, guest host Lowell Aplebaum, EdD, FASAE, CAE, CPF, from Association Rockstars, leads a conversation with Haley Jones, director of member engagement at the American Staffing Association, and Joe Lindhal, CEO of Mission MSA. Together, they explore the evolving landscape of workforce development in the association sector, discussing the influence of AI, the importance of adaptability, and the critical role of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). The conversation highlights how DEI drives organizational success, urging associations to lead by example, embrace inclusive practices, and nurture a culture of acceptance and continuous learning.   Check out the video podcast here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwM9JWpnOWM   This episode is sponsored by Visit Omaha.   Transcript   Lowell Aplebaum  00:05 Welcome everybody to episode two of Associations NOW Presents, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. And we'd like to thank our episode sponsor today Visit Omaha for the support of this podcast. My name is Lowell Aplebaum. I'm the CEO of Vista Cova, typically hosting the Association Rockstars podcast, but really excited and overjoyed to have the opportunity today to facilitate a meaningful conversation around workforce development with two brilliant minds in our community. And rather than read a speaker bio, which probably would not have you still tuning in, we're going to have the opportunity to hear a little bit about the own professional journey from our two panelists today. So for each of you, I'll ask you one at a time, if you could please tell us a little bit about who you are and where you work, as we're thinking about workforce development and professional journeys that have led you to places of the association community. Tell us a little bit about your journey. Haley, do you want to go first?   Haley Jones  01:07 Sure. So I'm Haley Jones. I'm the director of member engagement at the American staffing Association in Alexandria, Virginia. I spent my entire career in the association space, but I got started through being placed at my first association from a staffing firm, ironically, X amount of years later, so I don't necessarily age myself. I now work at the trade association that represents the person who was once a member who got me into associations to begin with. I started in associations through member care, was answering the 800 line processing applications. Moved into the membership department. I spent the first half of my career in membership. The latter half has been in governance and volunteer management, leadership development. And then the last almost five years now has been also in the DEI space. I oversee a team of four people who run all of the, basically eight of the nine engagement programs that ASA has. My main focus is our DEI initiatives. I think where I've gotten to where I'm at now, I attribute a lot of it to being a DELP Scholar. I'm in the 2019 to 2021 class, and got access to mentoring and executive coaching and just education opportunities that I ordinarily wouldn't have thanks to Visit Detroit that sponsored everything, and that was a turning point for me and my career and finding my voice and just putting me in a leadership position, where I still work on this now, but where people see me as a leader and I also finally see myself as one too.   Lowell Aplebaum  02:48 I love that.  Hopefully, as we were able to go into a discussion around workforce development, that sort of transformational journey from an employee to a profession to a leader, hopefully we can dig in a little more on those stages as well as we think about that, Joe, please.   Joe Lindhal  03:03 Yeah, so I'm Joe Lindahl. I serve as the CEO for Mission MSA, which is a nonprofit organization for patient advocates and research around multiple system atrophy, which is a rare neurodegenerative disease closely aligned with Parkinson's, but has the size and progression of it. I am with MCI USA, which is a management company, so I think I share many similar stories and journey as Haley. I was placed through a temp staff firm with the Association Management Center right after I graduated with a degree in journalism from DePaul. Go Blue Demons! In front of the recession where newspapers were failing, no one wanted to read or at least pay for it. The whole industry was turned upside down. So I was placed in this firm and I ended up really loving the world. This, I think, is a very common story for us, association professionals. Starting in marketing, really, after the first two years of more operations and governance, moved out to DC, where I got to work for the Child Life Council, and then also worked at the American Staffing Association, where Haley is now, where I had my "association, full circle moment." Like, I get to support an industry that really has done so much for me to where I am now. And then I moved back to Chicago, worked for AMC again, serving as a senior ops for specialty nursing groups, and eventually as an executive director and to where I am now. So it has been a rapid journey. You open your eyes and like, oh my gosh, what has happened? But it's been a lot of fun, and I'm really excited to talk about the workforce journey and workforce development.   Lowell Aplebaum  04:43 I hope that you will continue, both of you, to insert sort of personal reflections of your own stages of your professional progression as we talk about the larger workforce development. What's interesting, I think about both of your backgrounds - besides, it's amazing that both of you found sssociations by being placed in them; I'd be interested in a research study of what that percentage looks like as we now go into a discussion on workforce development - there's really a duality that we're discussing. One is the place of workforce development within the association community itself, and then the larger societal challenges or opportunities of workforce development across many industries. And I imagine from an American Staffing Association, you're looking many different lenses. We all, of course, are well matched in the association industry. So I welcome either of those paths that you want to explore with the top I'll start thinking broad, which is just as you think about workforce development in general, from what you've experienced and from your insights, what trends do you see? What would you identify as some of the big markers of challenge, opportunity or the way things are go? Haley, do you want to go first?   Haley Jones  05:52 Yeah, so this is something we do talk about a lot with our members, and especially in hearing what they're seeing as they're putting people to work, and one of the biggest ones is probably the emergence of AI and the fact that people really need to learn it. And there are people who think that AI is going to remove other people from the workforce, and then that probably will happen in some instances. But there's also a way to use AI as more of a partner and not much for a replacement to your responsibilities, and being able to learn how to use it to help with maybe administrative tasks. Or several of us have used it for writer's block, and then going back in and using it to going through it with a to read, for comprehension, to make sure that what it does dump out is, one it's accurate, or you make it accurate, and also that it makes sense. But it gives you the opportunity, if you are using it, to be able to focus on higher level work and higher value things. But I just had a conversation about two weeks ago about this, where everyone's starting to learn AI now. I had an owner the other day say, "I'm going to become obsolete. So I'm learning how to do all of this now." He's, I think, in his 60s, and has been in the business for over 30 years, but is also trying to keep his business relevant. It's just been interesting to see the different facets of it. There's also a bias issue when it comes to AI that we can get into later, but because that definitely can hurt minority communities in certain ways. But yeah, we've been talking a lot about AI and just also really upskilling to learn that or learn other skills to help further your career.   Lowell Aplebaum  07:34 Joe?   Joe Lindhal  07:35 The general workforce piece, I think some of the trends that when we look for talent, at least from an employer standpoint, is, we are looking for a kind of willingness to adapt, having some comfortability with technology. And how we operate as a workplace is we are almost completely remote, so our team is everywhere. There has to be the level of comfort of having these video conversations, having to use SharePoint, how to do video calls, how to be comfortable doing some of these things that are really important. And from piggybacking on what Haley's saying is as small staff especially, AI presents a lot of opportunity. I think it's not going to replace a lot of what we do yet individually, but it certainly can act as an accelerator or simplifier in a lot of our processes. For example, we have a support line that is open where you can speak with a social worker if you have any questions about your diagnosis. No one really generally knows about multiple system atrophy until they have to know about multiple system atrophy. And in that context, you're dealing with folks that want everything they want to literally swallow the ocean, and it's a really hard thing to do. And so what we do have a social worker that's available to talk on the phone answer emails, but we're exploring like we know what the common questions are. We know where people need to go to where can I find a movement disorder specialist? Where can I find a clinical trial? How do I manage my symptoms? We can create a chatbot based on our documents that will answer 75 to 90% of those questions immediately. Our helpline is only open from nine to five, but we deal with a global audi

In our inaugural episode, recorded live at the ASAE Annual Meeting and Exposition in Cleveland, we hand over the hosting duties to Kiki L'Italien, host of Association Chat. Kiki engages in a lively discussion with Virginie De Visscher, executive director of business events for Destination Canada, on the crucial topic of sustainability in events. Together, they explore how sustainability spans environmental, sociocultural, and economic dimensions, advocating for a holistic approach. Virginie provides inspiring examples from Canada, including innovations like green roofs, urban beehives, and local food initiatives, underscoring the importance of incorporating cultural elements to enhance event experiences. This episode is sponsored by Destination Canada.  Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.    Transcript Michelle Mason  00:04 From ASAE, this is Associations NOW Presents, a podcast for association professionals tackling issues and challenges that affect our community. I'm Michelle Mason, CEO of ASAE. We hope you enjoythis episode. Now, let's tune in and hear what the experts are discussing. Kiki L'Italien  00:22 All right, we are live. Do you hear this background noise? We are live at ASAE annual, at the Super Bowl of meetings in Cleveland, Ohio. I am Kiki L'Italien, and I am guest hosting the inaugural podcast episode of ASAE's new podcast. I usually host a podcast over Association Chat. I got a chance to jump over here. And with me is our inaugural podcast guest Virginie De Visscher  00:53 Virginie De Visscher. Kiki L'Italien  00:54 I wish you could say that as well as you do. With the last name, L'Italien, and you think I'd be better at this. But anyway, I'm so glad that we're here. I'm so glad that we're talking and I saw you on stage today, and can I just say you were fantastic. It looked like you were like born to do this. You just dominated the stage. You were radiant.  Virginie De Visscher  01:17 I think I was inspired by who we were introducing, Amanda Gorman. Kiki L'Italien  01:21 I know. Weren’t we all? Amanda Gorman is not just inspirational. I do believe she's a magical being. I You though, let me tell you, you had an important message, and Team Canada has an important message. That's why you're here. Let's talk about the keyword sustainability, sustainability. We could say it together, sustainability. So I'm super excited to talk to you because for several reasons. One is because I love Canada, but the other is because this is the inaugural episode, inaugural episode of the first ASAE podcast, and they're launching it here. This is supposed to be somewhat of a different format than all of the rest. We get to be the lucky ones. And I'm looking at this list of questions, but all I can do is stare across at you right now and see that you're beaming. You're radiating. I saw you on stage this morning with Amanda Gorman also sharing the stage opening keynote. And you're up there and you're talking about sustainability and being maybe when people hear the word sustainability, they don't think of it as being particularly exciting. But at the same time, a lot of travel here was disrupted because of harsh climate conditions, right? We had these horrible storms. People had a hard time getting to ASAE Annual. Interesting that one of the big features that you're talking about for Canada is Destination Canada is doing some amazing things with sustainability. So I want to go into that. I want to open with that and talk about the fact that it is a really important topic. It is something that I think more and more event planners are finding to be increasingly important for the way that they decide where they're going to post their meetings. And I think that when people start looking for is there something meaningful behind the word sustainability that's happening? They're going to ask these questions. So sustainability, what's happening? Why is this such a focus for you and Destination  Canada? And what's got you fired up about it right now? Virginie De Visscher  03:36 I think it's a combination of things. It's a passion subject. First of all, it's a personal passion subject, but I think it's undeniable. Like you mentioned, the recent climate events that impacted Cleveland, like these are impacting all of us across the planet. In Canada, we're not immune, and things are happening and we see it. We have a beautiful country, and we want to make sure that it stays that way. So events are disruptive in an ecosystem. By just bringing large amount of species into another ecosystem, you're disrupting the environment. So what can you do to keep less of that disruption, and on the opposite side, how do you maximize the benefits that you bring into a destination with events? Sustainability is a topic that we've really taken on this Destination Canada, but as Team Canada is a whole effort countrywide through a national sustainability plan that really means a lot to us, because we want to still be there for generations coming ahead. And I'm not saying that cliche. I really mean it. Kiki L'Italien  04:32 Yeah, I was talking with someone about the fact that we were going to have this discussion, and her association is focused on looking at how meetings use their waste. And so she said, “Are you going to ask any questions about that? Are you going to ask, like, what they're doing, how they're working with different meeting planners to figure out how to create more sustainable meetings?” And I said, that's a really great question. Let me go ahead and add that to the list. What are some of the ways that you're working with different people, different associations and organizations that are coming in to have meetings in Canada.  Virginie De Visscher  05:04 There's lots of different ways how you can approach it, but first, maybe we should define sustainability. Let's do that. Let's define it. When you say the word sustainability, there's a big assumption that it's just about environmental. Yes, but it's not just that. It's not all the green stuff and what you do in regards to saving the planet, it's all about the people and the culture as well. So when we define sustainability, we want to make sure that all three pillars are encompassed into it. So of course, environmental sustainability, but then it's the sociocultural and economic side. So you want to have an impact on local economies when you're coming to meet somewhere, but also that cultures are thriving and people are healthy and people are there for the long term. So when we really see it as all encompassing and not just environmental, that was the first thing to do. But then the realization was, everybody is a part of it. It just it's not put the blame on someone, or don't think you can't do anything about it. It belongs to everybody. We all live on this planet. We all have people that we care about around us for future generations to come. So what can we do? And that was when we started our national business event sustainability plan. And keep in mind, we're a national organization, so we're not necessarily in the city level, but it's very important that we create that leadership for people to move forward and our organizations to be more sustainable. I think COVID really impacted that way too, when meetings were all of a sudden not happening. Sure the environmental footprint was - -well, the environment benefited, right? Nobody was moving anywhere, traveling. But look at all the negative impact that happened. So many businesses shut down. People were not thriving. Knowledge was not being shared, so all these positive impacts and legacies of events were not happening, so it's all about maximizing the benefits and minimizing the negative potential environmental footprint. So then the birth of the plan was to get all destinations on board to be more sustainable for meetings. Kiki L'Italien  06:57 Do you think that you're getting enough questions about this? Do you notice that there is an increasing amount of interest? I hear talk about it, right? I hear people say that they're interested, but I don't know if, in actuality, that the conversations have changed, have they?  Virginie De Visscher  07:14 There's  more questions. It's undeniable. We've done a lot of surveys on this, and it's quite visible that right now, it is supplier driven. There's a lot of barriers still to having more sustainable meetings. Cost is one of those biggest barriers, and the second one is lack of knowledge of what you can implement. And so on the supplier side, they've really taken that on venues and hotels, even airlines, to be honest, have taken a stance and been more sustainable, offering more options, whether it's waste diversion or the way energy or electricity is fed into the building, or food and beverage options. So all of that venues and destinations have really taken a stance on how they can make that easier for associations to meet and incorporate them. So while we're not seeing as much coming from the association world and asking for sustainable practices. More and more the responses from the destinations that are bidding on these opportunities are including sustainable practices. Kiki L'Italien  08:10 Yeah, I think everybody, when I'm looking at associations, the executive directors reporting to their boards, do we want more and more to be able to include this thing that makes everyone feel like they're doing their part. They're doing the thing that's going to make the planet better. I hate to sound a little bit cynical, but actually, from a bottom line standpoint, I think it actually ultimately is better for everybody, even from the bottom, not a standpoint, to be thinking about that bigger picture. Because if we don't have a planet, we can't have more meetings. You know, we can't continue to have associations. And so the other part that you touched on was sustainability, talking about these pillars, talking about being concerned about the cultural side of thi