Bold Calling

In this episode of Bold Calling, Adam sits down with Michael Maximoff, founder of Belkins, to explore the evolving world of sales development and how SDR roles are shifting amidst advancements in AI, automation, and omnichannel strategies. They dive into Orum's 2024 State of Sales Development Report findings, touching on the increased demand for SDRs, shifts in sales pipeline responsibilities, and the critical alignment of sales and marketing functions. Key Topics Discussed: The Changing SDR Role Michael shares insights on how SDRs are becoming growth specialists who strategically build omnichannel outreach strategies rather than relying solely on single channels. SDR roles are evolving into "GTM growth specialists," responsible for managing multiple channels to nurture leads more effectively. Omnichannel Outreach vs. Multichannel Marketing Michael distinguishes between true omnichannel strategies and basic multichannel outreach, emphasizing the importance of seamless, personalized customer journeys that guide prospects from awareness to conversion. The Power of the Phone in SDR Outreach According to Orum's report, 85% of sales leaders view phone calls as essential for building pipeline, with 70% saying over half of their pipeline results from calls. Michael adds that phone outreach works best when it’s the third or fourth touchpoint after establishing prior contact through other channels. Balancing AI and Human-Centric Sales Strategies Despite the rise of AI, Michael argues that human-led sales strategies are more impactful, particularly for creating long-term customer relationships. He predicts a growing divide between companies that use AI for efficiency and those prioritizing genuine customer connections. Optimizing SDR Teams and Specialization Michael explains Belkins’ team structure, which includes lead researchers and SDRs working in tandem to ensure high-quality outreach. By specializing roles, Belkins maximizes efficiency and effectiveness, allowing SDRs to focus on engaging leads without being bogged down by list-building. The Future of Sales Development Michael forecasts that SDRs will increasingly contribute to strategy development alongside traditional outreach. The demand for nuanced, high-impact touchpoints will only increase as companies navigate growing volumes of outreach driven by automation. Key Quotes: On Omnichannel Outreach: “Omnichannel isn’t just using multiple channels; it’s an integrated, step-by-step approach where each touch builds on the previous engagement, creating a seamless customer experience.” On the Role of the Phone: "The phone is incredibly effective, but it shouldn’t be the first touchpoint. Using it as a third or fifth touchpoint after nurturing leads through other channels makes conversion rates three to five times higher." On the Importance of Human Sales: “With AI, we’re seeing a rise in volume over quality. Brands that build real relationships with prospects and foster strong teams will ultimately stand out in a market flooded with automated outreach.” Connect with Michael Maximoff: LinkedIn: Michael Maximoff Podcast: Belkins Podcast on YouTube Email: michael@belkins.io Tune in to this episode for a comprehensive discussion on the modern SDR landscape and how sales teams can leverage both technology and human touch to create impactful outreach in today’s market.

In this episode of Bold Calling, Adam Sockel sits down with Troy Barter, Head of Revenue at Rocket Shipping, to dive into the nitty-gritty of sales development. Troy brings his extensive sales experience, from door-to-door hustle to tech sales strategy, to offer hard-hitting insights on the evolution of the SDR role, the power of resilience, and the real impact of sales development. Key Highlights: The Value of Perspective in Sales Development: Troy draws a powerful comparison between door-to-door sales and tech sales, emphasizing the “grit advantage” that field experience brings to SDRs. “When you’ve faced a hard ‘no’ in person, a cold call feels like nothing in comparison,” he says. Changing SDR-AE Dynamics: Troy sheds light on how SDRs today are siloed from AEs, creating inefficiencies and reducing the perceived value of the SDR role. He argues, “SDRs should be incentivized on closed revenue, not just meetings scheduled. If SDRs aren’t setting up closeable pipeline, the model is broken.” Leveraging Tech Without Replacing the Human Element: Troy warns SDRs not to rely too heavily on automation, as it threatens their job security. “If you use tools to replace what makes you unique as a salesperson, human SDRs will no longer exist.” Career Pathing and SDR Motivation: Troy believes in promoting from within but stresses performance as the primary driver. For SDRs looking to move up, he advises a proactive approach: “Crush it at your current role, then ask to close smaller deals once you hit target—this shows you’re ready for AE responsibilities.” Insightful Quotes from Troy Barter: “Door-to-door sales taught me grit in a way tech never could. When you’ve walked a block in August Florida heat, SDR calls are nothing.” “You don’t bring Tom Brady in to block—you bring him in to win. AEs should close, not prospect; SDRs should build closeable pipeline, not just book meetings.” “SDRs, don’t let automation do your whole job. Those tools are here to help, but if they replace your role, you’ll be out of a job before you know it.” “If your SDR pipeline isn’t closing, your model is broken. Either the product doesn’t work, or the process is flawed—fix it.” “The tech hasn’t changed; it’s the mindset. The SDRs with the willingness to put in real work are standing out more than ever.” Episode Takeaways: Resilience is key in sales development: SDRs with door-to-door or other tough sales backgrounds have a built-in advantage. Real alignment between SDRs and AEs drives pipeline success. The current model, which separates SDR and AE goals, is hurting the industry. Career growth in sales development depends on demonstrating consistent success in pipeline generation, not just meeting quotas. Tools are just that—tools: The real value of SDRs lies in their ability to connect and problem-solve in ways automation cannot replace.

In this episode of Bold Calling, presented by Orum, Adam Sockel sits down with Joe Fontana, the North American Sales Director for BuyerForesight, for a dynamic discussion on building high-performing sales teams, the importance of sales and marketing alignment, and how discipline plays a key role in sales success. With decades of experience in both leading and consulting for sales teams across a variety of industries, Joe brings a wealth of insights into the often-overlooked fundamentals of sales—human connection and discipline. Key Takeaways from the Episode: The Power of Simplicity in Sales and Marketing Alignment One of Joe's biggest lessons throughout his career is the necessity of simple, clear communication between sales and marketing teams. He stresses, “Talk to me like I’m five until I tell you to stop.” By starting with the basics, Joe believes sales teams can understand the nuances of what marketing is doing and align on a cohesive strategy. According to Joe, salespeople should leave their ego at the door and focus on the common goal: reaching the right customers effectively. Building Relationships Before the Pitch When it comes to prospecting, Joe advocates for an authentic, relationship-first approach. Whether it’s at executive dinners or during one-on-one interactions, Joe emphasizes the importance of earning the right to pitch. He says, “You can’t put a price on human interaction and authenticity because that’s all sales is—just a series of conversations between someone who has a problem and someone who can solve it.” Sales Teams Must Learn Discipline and Structure Joe also highlights the importance of personal discipline, noting how his military background has shaped his structured approach to daily routines. He stresses the need for sellers to not only be well-prepared but also manage their time with intention. “I need to be disciplined and I need to be structured. I’m up every morning before 4:30 AM because I know that keeps me mentally sharp.” Solving for Misalignment in Sales and Marketing One of the most frustrating challenges for Joe is when sales teams don’t take full advantage of the high-quality prospects that marketing delivers. He shares how he often finds marketers frustrated by sales reps who don’t fully understand their ICP or don’t utilize the materials they’re given. His advice? Sales teams need to start seeing marketing as a valuable partner rather than an obstacle. Why You Should Listen: Joe Fontana brings real talk to the table, offering a candid view of what really works in sales development, pipeline building, and team collaboration. With practical advice for both sales leaders and individual contributors, this episode is a must-listen for anyone who wants to learn how to build a sustainable and scalable sales team. Whether you’re struggling with sales and marketing alignment or looking for ways to improve your personal sales discipline, Joe’s insights will leave you with plenty to think about—and implement. Quotes from the Episode: “You have to keep your ego at the door when building a sales org. You may think you know everything, but a day in the trenches will show you otherwise.” – Joe Fontana “Nobody wants to talk about your product. They’re not there for your brand. They’re there because of the challenge that keeps them up at 2 AM. Talk to that.” – Joe Fontana “If you can’t communicate with your colleagues in sales and marketing, how can you be relied upon to communicate with a prospect?” – Joe Fontana Connect with Joe Fontana: LinkedIn: Joe Fontana Subscribe & Follow Us: Stay up to date with future episodes of Bold Calling by subscribing on your favorite podcast platform!

In this episode of Bold Calling, Adam Sockel is joined by Leslie Venetz to dive deep into sales development strategies for 2025, backed by insights from Orum’s second annual State of Sales Development report. Leslie, with her years of expertise in sales, shares actionable advice on improving outbound strategies, reducing customer acquisition costs (CAC), and shortening sales cycles. Leslie stresses the importance of an omnichannel approach to outbound sales, explaining how a multi-touch, multi-channel, and multi-media strategy is essential to meeting prospects where they are. The episode also breaks down some of the key findings from the report, including the rising use of social channels and video in sales outreach. Throughout the conversation, Leslie challenges outdated sales norms, such as spending excessive time researching individual prospects, and offers a fresh perspective on AI’s role in the future of sales development. She advocates for AI as a tool to assist, not replace, salespeople, urging organizations to leverage AI for automating low-value tasks while keeping the human touch at the forefront. This episode is a goldmine for sales leaders looking to optimize their teams for the challenges of 2025, from balancing the roles of sales, marketing, and customer success, to creating more personalized and effective outbound strategies. Key Discussion Points: [02:06] The shift toward an omnichannel outbound strategy: Leslie explains the need for a multi-touch, multi-channel approach. [03:16] The myth of "quality vs. quantity" in outbound sales: Leslie challenges the notion that you must choose between personalization and scale. [05:55] Understanding your ICP (Ideal Customer Profile): Why aligning your strategy to your buyer’s behavior is crucial for outbound success. [06:15] How voicemails still play a powerful role in outbound efforts: Leslie outlines how a voicemail strategy can improve overall engagement. [10:03] Looking ahead to 2025: How organizations should rethink their approach to sales and customer retention to reduce churn and grow. [13:20] Collaborating with customer success (CS) for long-term sales success: Leslie discusses how outbound teams can better partner with CS to drive referrals and upsell opportunities. [17:07] Crafting effective sales messaging: Leslie shares why most outbound messages miss the mark and how to fix them. [33:14] AI’s role in sales development: Leslie emphasizes AI as an assistive tool that should help sales reps focus on higher-value tasks. [37:57] Leslie’s top 3 outbound channels: The non-negotiables for any sales development team going forward. Quotes: “To optimize outbound, you need to take a multi-touch, multi-channel, multi-media approach... The more diverse your outreach, the more likely you’ll reach your prospects where they want to be communicated with.” – Leslie Venetz “Most of your messaging sucks because it’s not customer-centric. Audit your copy to remove ‘I’ and ‘we’ language and replace it with customer benefits.” – Leslie Venetz “AI is assistive, not replaceive. Use it to automate low-risk, low-value tasks and free up time for building relationships.” – Leslie Venetz Resources Mentioned: Orum’s Second Annual State of Sales Development Report Sales Led GTM Agency Connect with Leslie Venetz: LinkedIn: Leslie Venetz Connect with Orum: Website: Orum

In this episode of Bold Calling, presented by Orum, we sit down with Charles Needham, Manager of Revenue Operations and Business Development at Fetch. Charles shares his fascinating journey from Wall Street and private equity to leading sales development teams. He explains how his background in economics gives him a unique lens through which he approaches sales, helping his teams become more efficient and strategic in their outreach efforts. Charles breaks down the role of risk in sales development, challenging the traditional focus on relationship-building. He argues that reducing uncertainty is key in today’s high-interest, high-risk environment. Charles also dives into how sales strategies must adapt to larger economic cycles, particularly focusing on efficiency and profitability over sheer volume-based tactics. Join us as we explore the future of sales development, the importance of channel-validated outreach, and how tools like Orum are helping sales teams scale while improving outcomes. Whether in sales, operations, or leadership, this episode is packed with valuable insights to help you rethink your approach to modern sales.

In this episode of Bold Calling, Adam Sockel is joined by Michael Pedone, founder of SalesBuzz, to discuss his incredible journey from being a commission-only sales rep to building a seven-figure business. Michael shares his insights into the importance of self-investment, overcoming cold calling reluctance, and why most salespeople don’t invest in their own development. Whether you’re new to sales or a seasoned professional, this conversation offers valuable takeaways on mastering the fundamentals and scaling your sales success. Key Takeaways: Michael's Sales Journey: From growing up poor with no college education to selling his first company for seven figures, Michael’s story is a testament to how dedication and continual learning can lead to success in sales. Overcoming Call Reluctance: Michael offers practical tips for conquering the fear of cold calling, emphasizing the importance of following a simple process. As he explains, “You just need to learn what to say, how to say it, and when to say it.” The Reluctance to Invest in Personal Development: Michael touches on a frustrating reality—many sales professionals refuse to invest in their own growth. He believes the key to long-term success lies in a willingness to learn and invest in yourself.

We've previously discussed how sales is a mix of science and art with Dee Acosta, but it's also equal parts freestyle and structure. It's "Yes, and" with just a bit of A/B testing. Shaheem Alam has big thoughts on why outbound sequence order doesn't matter and even bigger thoughts on why you need to pick up the phone.  In this discussion, Shaheem and Adam get nerdy about relevance and curiosity while focusing on where sales leaders need to be more rigid and where they need to allow some flexibility within the sales process.  Check out https://fiveringsmarketing.com/ to learn about their business and connect with Shaheem on LinkedIn. 

Chris Cicconi works with multiple organizations as a fractional sales leader, which has given him a nuanced understanding of revenue teams' minds. It takes a long time to earn trust, especially in a space where leaders and individual contributors are judged on their latest accomplishments and numbers.  Contrary to popular belief on platforms like LinkedIn, process change in sales takes time. It takes a concerted effort and willingness to be bold, especially when working with founders and early-stage start-ups. Chris and Adam discuss how creating that genuine change from a tactical standpoint and a 20,000-foot mindset shift.

"Too much can mean not doing as well." Will Aitken shares this truth with host Adam Sockel when breaking down his biggest challenge- Taking on too many opportunities. A talented sales professional who found a knack for creating video content that other sellers connected with, Will has spent this year branching out on his own. While this has created endless potential partnerships and opportunities to work with creative brands and people, the biggest struggle for Will is what happens when he says "Yes" too often. The conversation blossoms out from there, diving into Will's career as a content creator and seller, Adam and Will going deep on the importance of building trust during the sales process, and Will's endless love of cold calling. Looking for more information on Will's work? Check out https://willaitken.com/. And visit https://www.orum.com/podcasts to view every episode of the Bold Calling podcast.  

Ali is the Founder of Simple Strat and hosts the wildly successful HubSpot Hacks YouTube show. She joined the latest episode of Bold Calling to discuss how she consults organizations to navigate AI to ensure scalability, and her heightened awareness about shifting marketing strategies as a founder.  AI is constantly changing the tech stack sales and marketing teams are using, as well as the platforms where we traditionally learn more about customers and prospects, making it essential to find ways to stay in the know. 

Dee Acosta, Senior Director of Sales and Strategic Growth at Modigie, joins Adam Sockel on episode three of the Bold Calling podcast to discuss how cold calling technology has gone from “nice to have” to “need to have” in the last 18 months.  They also discuss the role of positivity and fun in sales and the importance of building strong relationships between sales and marketing teams. They talk about the importance of giving positive feedback to build a cross-team culture, the impact of cold calling, the value of practical advice in content marketing, the essentiality of quality customer success, and Dee's ideal workday.   

This special episode of the Bold Calling podcast is an audio version of Orum's new State of AI in Sales Development report.  AI has become a table-stakes aspect of the sales process, as 95% of organizations use AI in sales in some capacity (Salesloft). Sellers agree that it can sharpen their focus as 78% of sales professionals agree that AI can help them spend more time on the most critical aspects of their jobs (Hubspot). The rise of AI in sales directly correlates with lengthening procurement procedures, with customer acquisition costs rising in the last 12 months (Orum). AI is designed not to replace seller but to optimize how they spend their time. Currently, sellers only spend 28% of their time selling (Salesforce), often spending 25-30 hours weekly on administrative tasks. AI’s power is dependent on sellers' data enrichment capabilities. It works best to keep humans involved in the sales process rather than eliminate them. This is especially true in more complicated sales processes, where buyers prefer to speak with a human seller when nuance is involved in purchasing. The future of the seller is directly related to the future of AI. They are intertwined, and while AI will likely replace some sales roles, it will ultimately create a better experience for buyers and sellers alike.   Visit orum.com to see the full report

Jonathan Pogact, VP of Marketing at Seamless.AI, recognizes that the SaaS world moves quickly. Finding ways to ensure your prospects know who you are and what you do when they enter the sales cycle means being willing to take risks. In this discussion, Jonathan and host Adam Sockel discuss how Seamless.AI carves out time for innovative thinking. They break down what data can inform marketing investment and how automation through AI empowers his team to spend more time on creative thought. Experimentation can be the key to owning every situation your brand is in, partnerships can dramatically expand your audience, and inspiration can come from unlikely places. The conversation ends with Jonathan sharing where that inspiration strikes him and how his TikTok FYP page brings him calm.

Anshul Gupta, Co-Founder of Actively.ai, delves into the practical applications of AI for outbound teams. He explains how this technology can significantly boost pipeline generation by freeing sellers from spending 20-30 hours weekly on mundane administrative tasks.  He then shares his biggest challenges as a tech start-up, beginning with knowing where to start, what tasks need his attention first, and how to triage obstacles as they come, given the reality of limited resources. The show closes with Anshul sharing stories about childhood entrepreneurship and the years that laid the groundwork for his current role as a co-founder. Check out orum.com to discover how Orum can help grow your pipeline. Royalty-Free Music is provided by Tunetank.com. Track: Spy Adventures by TrendingAudio  

Every two weeks, Bold Calling, the new podcast from Orum, will bring on leaders in the SaaS, tech, and AI industries to discuss their biggest challenges and how the innovative ways they're working to solve them.  Season one's theme is No Sleep 'Til Closed-Won and we'll center each discussion around a simple question with complicated answers. "What keeps you up at night?" The biggest influencers, revenue leaders, and founders work with Orum daily to build pipeline and elevate their productivity. Now, you have an exclusive seat at the table as they share their challenges and solutions to the problems we all face. Opportunity is Calling, and fortune favors the bold.  Subscribe at Orum.com or wherever you get your podcasts.   Royalty Free Music from Tunetank.com Track: Spy Adventures by TrendingAudio https://tunetank.com/track/3303-spy-adventures/