Sandra Matz is the David W. Zalaznick Associate Professor of Business at Columbia Business School, in New York, where she also serves as the Director of the Center for Advanced Technology and Human Performance. 

As a computational social scientist with a background in psychology and computer science, Sandra studies human behavior and preferences using a combination of big data analytics and traditional experimental methods. Her research, and the topic of this podcast, uncovers the hidden relationships between our digital lives and our psychology with the goal of helping businesses and individuals make better and more ethical decisions.  

We dive into some fascinating insights from her January 2025 book, MINDMASTERS: The Data-Driven Science of Predicting and Changing Human Behavior, exploring the concept she coined of “psychological targeting,” a discipline that reveals how our digital footprints expose intimate aspects of our psychology and can be used to shape decisions—from what we buy to how we vote.

In this podcast, we delve into this topic, discussing: 

• How digital technologies and AI are giving us unprecedented abilities to understand and target specific people in specific states
• The profound implications, for better or worse, of this capability
• Some exciting—and concerning—examples of what this might look like, from diagnosing mental health to crafting highly-personalized automated marketing campaigns 
• How this hyper-personalization and new AI has the potential to influence, change and even control our behaviors 
• What companies can learn from Apple’s “Evil Steve” test in designing products and experiences to safeguard future ethical misuse of data  
• A glimpse into what could be a solution to the ethical dilemma of the capabilities Sandra studies: federated learning—a new form of data modeling that protects the individual’s data while delivering high-quality insights 

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Episode Timeline:
00:00 —Highlight from today's episode
01:26 —Introducing Sandra+ the topic of today’s episode
03:48 —If you really know me, you know that...
04:26 —What is your definition of strategy?
05:10 —The two steps of psychological targeting
06:05 —What has changed in how psychological targeting is implemented? 
08:41 —How can we differentiate extroverts from introverts? 
10:09 —The manners in which psychological targeting can be intrusive
10:55 —Replicating old-school communication online 
12:30 —Dynamic personality states
15:52 —What are 'good' applications of psychological targeting? 
18:19 —How organizations can ensure they use psychological targeting ethically
20:40 —Safe ways to collect data without compromising individual privacy
23:05 —Can psychological targeting influence internal company behavior? 
25:42 —How companies can align themselves with diverse individual identities
26:48 —What skills and capabilities should organizations develop to adapt to AI-driven personalization?
26:26 —How can people follow you and continue learning from you?

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Additional Resources:
Personal website: sandramatz.com
Link to book: MINDMASTERS

Thank you to our guest, our executive producer Zach Ness, our editor James Pearce, and the Outthinker team. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.

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