This episode explores the role of the civil service, and why Ministers are often frustrated by the pace of change.

This is a two-part episode focusing on the impact of the constraints in the size of the Welsh Government, and the culture that has developed around it

The full set of interviews have been published by Cardiff University :

https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/2888677/Cathays-Conversations-Lee-Waters-Digital-Copy.pdf