In this episode, Angus talks with returning guest Yodan Rofe about Christopher Alexander's four‑volume magnum opus, The Nature of Order, and its impact on architecture, teaching, and daily life. Rofe, who studied and worked closely with Alexander, explains how early work on pattern language led to the deeper geometric and experiential insights developed in The Nature of Order. The conversation explores ideas such as the 15 properties of living structure, the "mirror of the self," and the challenge of talking about life and transcendence in built environments without slipping into abstraction. Rofe also describes his "Building Beauty" program, where students engage Alexander's work through seminars, studios, and real construction, and how this education can reshape how they see cities, infrastructure, and their own role in making a more livable world.