Dario Amodei is the CEO of Anthropic, the company that created Claude. Amanda Askell is an AI researcher working on Claude’s character and personality. Chris Olah is an AI researcher working on mechanistic interpretability.

Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep452-sc

See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc.

Transcript:

https://lexfridman.com/dario-amodei-transcript

CONTACT LEX:

Feedback – give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey

AMA – submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama

Hiring – join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring

Other – other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact

EPISODE LINKS:

Claude: https://claude.ai

Anthropic’s X: https://x.com/AnthropicAI

Anthropic’s Website: https://anthropic.com

Dario’s X: https://x.com/DarioAmodei

Dario’s Website: https://darioamodei.com

Machines of Loving Grace (Essay): https://darioamodei.com/machines-of-loving-grace

Chris’s X: https://x.com/ch402

Chris’s Blog: https://colah.github.io

Amanda’s X: https://x.com/AmandaAskell

Amanda’s Website: https://askell.io

SPONSORS:

To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts:

Encord: AI tooling for annotation & data management.

Go to https://encord.com/lex

Notion: Note-taking and team collaboration.

Go to https://notion.com/lex

Shopify: Sell stuff online.

Go to https://shopify.com/lex

BetterHelp: Online therapy and counseling.

Go to https://betterhelp.com/lex

LMNT: Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix.

Go to https://drinkLMNT.com/lex

OUTLINE:

(00:00 ) – Introduction

(10:19 ) – Scaling laws

(19:25 ) – Limits of LLM scaling

(27:51 ) – Competition with OpenAI, Google, xAI, Meta

(33:14 ) – Claude

(36:50 ) – Opus 3.5

(41:36 ) – Sonnet 3.5

(44:56 ) – Claude 4.0

(49:07 ) – Criticism of Claude

(1:01:54 ) – AI Safety Levels

(1:12:42 ) – ASL-3 and ASL-4

(1:16:46 ) – Computer use

(1:26:41 ) – Government regulation of AI

(1:45:30 ) – Hiring a great team

(1:54:19 ) – Post-training

(1:59:45 ) – Constitutional AI

(2:05:11 ) – Machines of Loving Grace

(2:24:17 ) – AGI timeline

(2:36:52 ) – Programming

(2:43:52 ) – Meaning of life

(2:49:58 ) – Amanda Askell – Philosophy

(2:52:26 ) – Programming advice for non-technical people

(2:56:15 ) – Talking to Claude

(3:12:47 ) – Prompt engineering

(3:21:21 ) – Post-training

(3:26:00 ) – Constitutional AI

(3:30:53 ) – System prompts

(3:37:00 ) – Is Claude getting dumber?

(3:49:02 ) – Character training

(3:50:01 ) – Nature of truth

(3:54:38 ) – Optimal rate of failure

(4:01:49 ) – AI consciousness

(4:16:20 ) – AGI

(4:24:58 ) – Chris Olah – Mechanistic Interpretability

(4:29:49 ) – Features, Circuits, Universality

(4:47:23 ) – Superposition

(4:58:22 ) – Monosemanticity

(5:05:14 ) – Scaling Monosemanticity

(5:14:02 ) – Macroscopic behavior of neural networks

(5:18:56 ) – Beauty of neural networks