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In this episode, I sit down again with Dr. Donna Henderson — one of my most popular guests ever — to take a deep dive into pathological demand avoidance (PDA), a concept that’s becoming increasingly relevant but remains controversial in the US. Donna shares the personal case story that sparked her interest in PDA, defines what makes it distinct from typical demand avoidance, ODD, DMDD, and anxiety, and walks us through the core features and practical assessment strategies. We also explore how to support kids and families when PDA is part of the picture and where the field might be headed next. If you’ve ever scratched your head over a child who “must be in charge” and deeply struggles with demands, this conversation is for you.







Topics We Cover









* Donna’s journey: the first child who led her to discover PDA







* What PDA is (and what it’s not)







* The historical origins of PDA and why the term might need an update







* How PDA differs from typical demand avoidance, ODD, DMDD, anxiety, and trauma







* Core features of PDA and vivid real-life examples







* How to assess for PDA: interview approaches, testing adaptations, and pitfalls to avoid







* Communicating PDA findings to families without over-pathologizing







* Recommendations for families, schools, and clinicians — what actually works







* Future directions for research and how to stay curious in your practice









Cool Things Mentioned









* The Testing Psychologist mastermind groups and business consulting







* Reverb AI report-writing software







* PDA North America — support and resources for professionals and families







* PDA Society (UK) — original hub for information on PDA







* Is This Autism? by Donna Henderson, Sarah Wayland, and Jamell White — isthisautism.com







* Dr. Donna Henderson’s website — drdonnahenderson.com







* Donna’s handout on core features of PDA







* Stixrud Group practice — stixrud.com









Featured Resources







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