Talking about pregnancy loss, miscarriage and unexpected news in pregnancy is difficult, not just for those going through it but for the whole society. But why?

India speaks to Clea Harmer, the CEO of the baby loss Charity Sands about the idea of what is and isn’t a person and how the law, science and our own feelings are at odds with each other on this topic.

We also unpick foetal testing and screening in pregnancy. What syndromes are tested for, and why? And what does this say about our approach to disability and the idea of risk? Dr Garath Thomas is a reader in social sciences at Cardiff University and has researched Down's Syndrome Screening and Reproductive Politics.

For details of organisations which offer support with child bereavement and pregnancy related issues, go online to bbc.co.uk/actionline.

Presented by India Rakusen.
Producer: Ellie Sans.
Series Producer: Ellie Sans.
Executive Producer: Suzy Grant.
Commissioning Editor: Rhian Roberts.
Original music composed and performed by The Big Moon.
Mix and Mastering by Olga Reed.

A Listen production for BBC Radio 4 and BBC Sounds