ENERGY VACUUM! AZ calls up a man whom The New Yorker described as “perhaps the most influential Islamic scholar in the Western world,” but forgets to mention that the call is being recorded. <click> Can Mo ever forgive the blunder? Comedian Amir K joins the guys as they catch up with their dear friend and collaborator, indie rap pioneer and host of The Travelers Podcast, Brother Ali. 

Guests: Amir K, Brother Ali

ORIGINAL AUDIO PRODUCTION, MUSIC & SOUND DESIGN BY SALT

Executive Produced by Mo Amer, Azhar Usman, Noah Gersh, Jamie Schefman, Nick Panama, Kenzi Wilbur

Head of Creative: Jordan Galvan 

Head of Production: Liz LeMay

Head of Post Production: Robert Adler

Producers: Imran Ali Malik & Aaron Kennedy 

Supervising Producers: Allie Strobel & Alice Bearn

Post Production Supervisor: Aly Honoré

Post Production Coordinator: Jax Raffle 

Edited by: Geoffrey Mutchnik and Aaron Kennedy 

Sound Design and Music by: Matthew Chilelli

Mixed by: Aaron Kennedy 

Recorded by Aaron Kennedy, Zack Djurich and Mario Borgatta 

Guest Booking by Drive Entertainment and Hager Eldaas

Additional music courtesy of Extreme Music.

Joking Not Joking is a Luminary Original, and a co-production between SALT, Legally Homeless, Inc., and Numinous Company, Inc.