Jade Meskill: Hello, welcome to another episode of the Agile weekly podcast, I’m Jade Meskill.

Derek Neighbors: I’m Derek Neighbors.

Roy VandeWater: I’m Roy VandeWater.

Asking For Help Can Feel Silly

Jade: Roy, will you tell me what we’re talking about today?

Roy: Today we will be talking about asking for help.

Jade: Oh! Will you help me figure out the next question?

Roy: No.

[laughter]

Jade: Derek, will you help me with the next question?

Derek: Yes.

Jade: What’s the next question?

When Should You Ask For Help

Derek: The next question is, “When should you ask for help?”

Jade: When should you ask for help?

Roy: All the time.

Jade: All the time? You just don’t know anything?

When Shouldn’t You Ask For Help

Roy: When shouldn’t you ask for help?

Why Don’t People Ask For Help

Jade: That leads to a good question. Why don’t people ask for help? If you should do it all the time, why don’t people do it?

Roy: I think a lot of people are probably afraid to be perceived as not knowing something, as OK as that is. Obviously, there’s nobody in the world that knows everything.

Jade: Do smart people ask for help?

Derek: Sometimes.

Roy: Wise people ask for help. I don’t know about smart people.

Derek: I think there’s some cultural baggage around that. In some cultures it’s perceived as if you ask questions it means you’re dumb.

Roy: Yeah.

Jade: It’s a sign of weakness.

Roy: Yeah. I’ve talked to people where they feel they ask questions during a job interview, and they feel like the candidate Googled an answer, for example, then that is looked down upon. That is a point against the candidate, and they’ll probably not get hired.

Jade: What do you think it is?

Roy: What, Googling?

Jade: If somebody did that in front of you while you were trying to interview them?

Roy: If they don’t know the answer, and they’ve asked me and I don’t know the answer, and they don’t Google it, I would be like, “Have you not heard of this? Have you been living under a rock?”

Jade: [laughs]

Roy: If I’m hiring people, I don’t care if they know the answer themselves, I just want them to produce the product. If they rip it all off of Google, as long as it’s legal I don’t care how they get around it.

Putting Yourself In Ask for Help Debt

Derek: I think there’s some stubbornness involved, also. There’s some people who feel like “If I give you something you have to give me something in return. Therefore, if I ask you for help, then somehow I’m enslaved to you, and you could pull that card out at any time.”

Jade: So I’m in “Help debt.”

Derek: Maybe I don’t want to get into debt.

Being Forced To Help

Roy: Maybe the opposite. Because there’s also a lot of cultural baggage around being asked for help. Especially when you look at how people ask for help normally. They say, like, “Derek, please close the door.” It’s not really asking, so you don’t get to really say “No.” By me asking for help, I’m kind of socially obligating you to help me.

Derek: If I said, for example, I need one of you to volunteer to [indecipherable 03:13 ] this podcast, that would not be asking for help?

Jade: No, you’re kind of commanding help.

Roy: I’ve heard that called being “Volun‑told.”

Jade: Volun‑told, yeah.

Derek: My immediate reaction to that is, “Screw you, buddy! I’m not going to help you. Don’t tell me what to do.”

I know that I don’t like to ask for help. I have a hard time with it. I like to know things, and I like to learn things and figure them out. I’ll definitely Google things, I don’t have a problem with that. But maybe the more subtle or insidious things, that I’m surrounded by smart people who probably have the answer, but instead I’m going to be dumb and learn it the hard way.

Missing Trust

Roy: I wonder, too, if there is a bit of trust that’s missing. If I ask somebody for help and they provide it, now all of the sudden I have to take their help, almost, because I asked for it.

I’m not saying you actually have to, but socially it’d be really awkward if I asked Derek for help, and he gave me help and I said, “Nah, that’s not the help I’m looking for. I don’t want your help anymore.”

The Cost of Asking for Help

Jade: Yeah, I think that we think it’s this really high cost thing, too. In reality the amount of time it takes me to ask for help is the entirety of the investment, and if I get the help I gained a whole lot for the amount of time that I asked for it. But if I get a “No,” or I get help that doesn’t really apply, I’m no worse off than I was before I asked for help, except for the small amount of time I spent asking for help.

I think that we forget that. We forget that it’s a really low cost thing to do, because it takes a lot of courage to do it. It feels expensive even though it’s really cheap. I think for me, a lot of times I’ll be OK at asking for help if it’s present and in my face.

If I’m sitting here struggling with a technical problem and the two of you are sitting in the room, I’m probably pretty likely, the minute that I get blocked, to ask one of you two, because I know you’re both really bright and know technology.

But if the two of you aren’t in the room, but you’re on the end of a chat channel across the way, and I don’t have that chat channel open and I run into the exact same problem, I might fight with it for 30 minutes before I go, “Oh, wait! I could get ahold of them on IM!”

Sometimes I think presence makes it difficult too. If the people that we think are available to be helpful aren’t immediately present, we don’t think about…the barrier of typing an email and waiting 10 minutes for a response is probably still better than beating my head into the wall for 30 minutes.

Or we think that people maybe don’t know the answer. Gangplank is a really interesting place, which is a collaborative workspace that we’re in a lot, where we record this podcast. It’s not uncommon, if there’s 50, 60 people in the room, that you might pop up and say, “Hey, will somebody help me by telling me where a pair of scissors are?”

That’s really low‑cost, and the reality is somebody probably knows where those scissors are. But if I sit there and look at all 50 people, and I say, “I have no idea which one of these 50 people would know where the scissors are,” I might not ask any of them.

I think it’s getting over the barrier of, even when you don’t know who can help you, sometimes just saying, “I need help” is helpful. The person drowning that says, “I’m drowning,” generally gets a life raft. The person that doesn’t say that doesn’t get the life raft.

People Like To Help

Roy: It’s interesting, because people in general like to help. People like to receive the attention and to take advantage of knowing something that other people don’t.

I think there’s even probably a little bit of, I don’t want to say it’s malicious, but a little bit of one‑upmans. Like, “Hey, I’m helping you, because I’m able to do something that you can’t, so that gives me a little bit of self‑confidence boost,” or whatever.

In fact, I’ve even seen people help when it’s not even asked for and when it’s not wanted, just to have that either one‑upmans, or just to help out.

Derek: One of the things I find very interesting is that people do not like to ask for help, but damn, do they like to give it out, even when it’s not solicited.

Jade: [laughs]

Derek: We really like to rescue people, but we don’t like so much to ask people to help us, which is really odd to me. You think that it would be…

Roy: The other way around.

Derek: An even metering out.

Roy: Because helping people out has a way higher cost associated with it. It actually takes time.

Derek: Something in our wiring makes us want to help people. If we know that we like to help people, even when they don’t ask for it, wouldn’t we think that, when we want help, that…

Jade: People who want to help?

Derek: People would really want to help, but it’s like we’re wired the opposite way.

Creating a Culture of Asking For Help

Jade: If asking for help is cheap, and waiting too long to ask for help is very expensive,