[00:00:00 ] Bob Lonac: And the authenticity part — I believe everybody wants to run into people that have that freedom.  When you don't have anything to hide — I think that's what authenticity is. It's you are you. And being you, when you start discovering it and relaxing, it is a lot easier than always thinking, what do you think?

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[00:00:29 ] Tommy Thomas: My guest today is Bob Lonac. For people that have been regular listeners, you will remember Bob was the guest on our first episode, and I was so grateful that Bob would agree to be a guest on a podcast that never had occurred yet.

And so, thank you, Bob. We're 126 episodes in now, so we've got more listeners and I trust I've gotten a little bit better in my interviewing skills.  Bob had a successful career. 30+ years with Young Life. And then he was on the ground level with the International Justice Mission and finished his career with Crista Ministries in the greater Seattle area.

[00:01:09 ] Tommy Thomas: So, Bob, welcome again to Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership.

[00:01:13 ] Bob Lonac: Great to be here, Tommy. So, what you're doing, man. Thanks for all you've done for me.

[00:01:19 ] Tommy Thomas: I read your newsletter this week. Maybe go back and just refresh our listeners. You retired from Crista, and you started consulting and this newsletter is a way for you to share what you're thinking about.

[00:01:36 ] Bob Lonac: Yeah, newsletters may be an old word right now in today's world, but I always read newsletters on different things, finance whatever. And I thought, I am the kind of guy that's always thinking about stuff. And I think one of the things I do that over time people have told me is like put ideas into a way to communicate and help people grow, including myself.

Because I'm always thinking about how can I be better and what can I do? So, I just threw out the idea of hey, you want to sign up? So, if you do want to sign up for what I do have, I've got several hundred subscribers. It's free. So you just go to boblonac.com and you can sign up there.

[00:02:20 ] Tommy Thomas: I read the one this week and it had to do with giftedness and stewardship of your gifts, giftedness and honoring God with the way he created us and somehow that just that resonated with me, so I immediately got on the phone and called Bob and I said, let's do a podcast.  Let's discuss this.

Bob, I remember back from our first conversation. You know, you mentioned, probably midway in your career with Young Life, or maybe late there, that you read the book, What Color is Your Parachute? by Dick Bowles. And was that your first introduction into giftedness or that kind of things?

[00:02:55 ] Bob Lonac:  Probably, I think in most ministries and a lot of businesses there are like tests you take. Who is this person?

And what should you really do? And the parachute one was one of the first that I did read. And a guy gave it to me that was helping me through a transition.

[00:03:18 ] Bob Lonac: And I just got interested in that good question. Who am I? And it's really, I think a central question to those of us who want to be followers of Christ and, Jesus said, I've come, you might have life more abundantly and what does that mean? What is abundance? Does that mean getting rich?  I don't think so, but what is it and how do you understand it and how can you have more of it?

[00:03:49 ] Tommy Thomas: Years ago, probably 10-12 years ago now, Max Lucado, the pastor down in San Antonio was going through a, maybe struggle. That's probably not too strong of a word on figuring out what his best giftedness was.

He was trying to be a pastor of a mega church, but his passion was really writing and speaking. And so, he came to our organization, and we took him through the assessment SIMAÓ and he reorganized his whole church staff. He got an Executive Pastor to run the thing and freed him up to do what he does best, and that's to speak and to write. So, I think there is an element of stewardship there, of honoring God.

[00:04:30 ] Bob Lonac: No doubt about it. My mentor in life, theologically, was Earl Palmer, who used to speak a lot of Young Life things. Great speaker, one of the best, and just a wonderful person.

And he took me through a class on the Book of Romans with a small group. And he said this is the central understanding of the Christian faith is, what's the gospel, chapter 1 through 8, what happened to Israel, 9 through 11. And then starting with chapter 12, therefore, present your bodies as a living sacrifice to God.

[00:05:05 ] Bob Lonac: And in chapter 12, the Apostle Paul talks about what are you supposed to do? Who are you supposed to be? And he says, the first three verses, are present your body as a living sacrifice. But the third one says, don't think more highly of yourself than you ought to. And don't think less of yourself than you ought to.

Socrates started the whole thing way back in 400 BC, right? Know Thyself. And a lot of times people ask me, I'll say something on a subject or something that I'm talking about, and they say, how'd you know that? What'd you do? How'd you do that? I'd go, I don't know. I just did it. It just came out of me.

[00:05:52 ] Bob Lonac: I think that's what happens when you're operating on your gifts and who you are. It's not hard.

[00:05:59 ] Tommy Thomas: From your experience, and you've supervised countless people, what keeps people from going there?

[00:06:06 ] Bob Lonac: It's exactly the same thing in chapter 12. The beginning of chapter 12 is “don't let the world squeeze you into its own mold, but let Christ renew you from within”.

And boy, in today's world, it's so full of insecurities from people looking around and wanting to be. I don't even understand all the words out there. I got ghosted. I got whatever. And how can I be, how can I be popular and all that kind of stuff. And if you're not in your sweet spot being you.

And I do think the Bible talks about this a lot then you're trying to fake it.

[00:06:53 ] Tommy Thomas: You probably know Ross Hoskins with One Hope. Ross says surround yourself with people who know you better than you know yourself, and they will tell you the truth out of love. That's how we grow. Sounds like you've got a little bit of that going on in your mindset here.

[00:07:10 ] Bob Lonac: I think I got a lot of that going on. I have been blessed with unbelievable jobs that I, God brought me here, but whatever. And people ask me how did that happen? As a COO at International Justice Mission, I was the president, CEO of Crista, a big organization. How'd you do it?

I think the one thing I'm good at is choosing other people who know stuff more than I do.

[00:07:36 ] Bob Lonac: So, leadership is not about, look at me, how good I am, I can do this, let me help you do it. Leadership is about making other people successful. And that's the biblical idea. Oh, think about Jesus in the long haul too. Like, why did he die for us? Make us like the kind of people we were created to be.

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[00:08:02 ] Tommy Thomas: At what point at Young Life, did you get comfortable in your leadership skin? Did you acknowledge that this is how God put me together? This is what he wants me to do. And that's who I'm going to be.

[00:08:16 ] Bob Lonac: I want to say that I'm still in that process.  I don't think we get to this deal where oh, okay. Now I got it. I do understand a lot more about myself. And I do want to very much be who God wants me to be and do what God wants me to do, but it's a lifelong process. We all are broken people. We all live in a world of sin, and it's a lifelong process that is chiseled away.

I think the scripture says God is chiseling on me all the time to become the person he wants me to be.

[00:08:58 ] Tommy Thomas: Here's a couple of quotes about authenticity. I’d like your response. There's great power in authenticity. Arthur Wiles said, Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken. As St. Catherine of Siena put it, Be who God meant you to be and you'll set the world on fire.

[00:09:17 ] Bob Lonac: In that newsletter, I said that Irenaeus in the year 300 said “the glory of God is man fully alive”. And, when you're being you and you are in connection with God, Christ, that doesn't mean things will go great. I'm facing some incredible personal challenges in my life right now.

[00:09:39 ] Bob Lonac: I didn't get older and get better and everything got more wonderful all the time. It's up and down all the time. If it's not happening to you, the chiseling, it'll happen to you tomorrow. So, it's not easy. And the authenticity part is what everybody, I believe everybody wants to run into people that have that freedom.

When you don't have anything to hide, I think that's what authenticity is. It's you are you. And being you actually, when you start discovering it and relaxing, it is a lot easier than always thinking, what do you think? Here's a classic one. One of my grandsons, he's in the eighth grade, he's out helping me work in the yard. And he comes over to me and grandma, I have a great relationship with my kids and great kids. He says, grandpa, I have a question for you. What is it? Hey, I can hardly wait till I get old like you. Okay. This guy can hardly wait till I get old. I said, why? He said, then I can say no to people.

[00:10:59 ] Bob Lonac: And I go, oh, why do you think you can s