Exploring the science behind the complex acronyms

Sue Marriott and Ann Kelley discuss Experiential Dynamic Therapies (EDTs) with experts Margaret Martin and Dr. Deb Pollack. These therapies focus on recognizing and challenging defenses that lead to problems both internally and relationally. Learn the difference between defenses that feel right (Egosyntonic) and those that don’t (Egodystonic) and why it’s important to work against them for change. This episode is a dive into the role of EDTS in individual therapy, and highlights the need for an integrated approach to address underlying trauma, plus much more!

“Turning against defenses is key to creating change.” – Dr. Deborah Pollack

Time Stamps for Challenging Defenses: An Introduction to Experiential Dynamic Therapies (EDTS)

00:00 Introduction to Experiential Dynamic Therapies

04:07 Understanding Defenses and Creating Change

08:19 Turning Against Defenses

13:49 Building Capacity and Accessing Core Feelings

20:05 Working with Resistance and Anxiety

23:49 Exploring Different Models within EDTs

29:22 Understanding and Working with Defenses

36:14 Building Capacity and Regulating Emotions

39:05 Challenging Defenses and Facilitating Character Change

45:04 Integrating Modalities for Comprehensive Healing

48:31 The Role of the Therapist in Addressing Defenses

54:49 Compassionate and Supportive Therapeutic Relationships

About our Guests – Dr. Deborah Pollack & Margaret Martin, LCSW

Dr. Deborah Pollack is an Associate Professor of Psychology at Utica University and a clinical

psychologist in private practice near Syracuse, New York. She also has faculty appointments at SUNY Upstate Medical University and Syracuse University, where she teaches and supervises doctoral students in psychology. Dr. Pollack is active on the board of the International Experiential Dynamic Therapy Association (IEDTA), serving as recording secretary and on several

standing committees. She is the President-elect of the Central New York Psychological Association. Dr. Pollack is a qualitative researcher and most recently has investigated the application of EDT-informed therapy for mothers with postpartum mood and anxiety disorders. She has been studying the EDTs since 2009 and is certified as a Teacher and Supervisor through the IEDTA. She is currently running a core training in ISTDP and she also offers individual supervision in ISTDP for licensed or license-eligible therapists. In her free time, Deb enjoys traveling, sewing, and hiking, especially in the Adirondack

mountains where she is working on hiking all 46 high peaks.

Margaret Martin, LCSW is an individual and couple therapist practicing in Austin, Texas,

where she specializes in complex trauma. She began training with Stan Tatkin,

developer of the PACT model, in 2012. She now coaches PACT level one and two students and provides training for the PACT Institute, and hosts a monthly online discussion group for PACT and PACT-curious therapists. In 2022 Margaret completed the PACT Institute’s inaugural invitation-only certification program and is one of 25 therapists worldwide to receive the designation of PACT-certified therapist. In 2019 she began training in ISTDP and developed a passion for incorporating aspects of ISTDP into her work with couples. With colleague Kathryn Barksdale, Margaret co-developed Trauma Wise Therapy, a framework for working with high-trauma couples. Margaret active on the board of the International Experiential Dynamic Therapy Association (IEDTA) and chairs the IEDTA Diversity Committee. A self-described training junkie, she also trained in Somatic Experiencing, Eye Movement

Desensitization Reprocessing, Emotional Transformation Therapy, Brainspotting, and Accelerated Resolution Therapy. She is slightly fanatic about trauma-informed care, deliberate practice for therapists, cats, and fiber arts of any kind.

Resources for this Episode – Challenging Defenses: An Introduction to Experiential Dynamic Therapies (EDTS)

Margaret Martin, LCSW – Margaret Martin’s website

Deborah Pollack, PhD – Dr. Deborah Pollack’s website

Check out the most anticipated conference for Experiential Dynamic Therapists!! San Diego, CA – November 13th-15th –  IEDTA’s 2024 conference highlights the power of the therapeutic alliance in psychotherapy. Register here! 

IEDTA Certified Training –  Info on training in Experiential Dynamic Therapies

Application to join the EDT List

Additional resources on ISTDP and Experiential Dynamic Therapies

Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy by Patricia Coughlin – Recommended by Margaret Martin

Reaching Through Resistance by Allan Abbass – Recommended by Margaret Martin

Intensive Short-Term Dynamic Psychotherapy: A Reference by Nat Kuhn MD – Recommended by Margaret Martin

Treating Affect Phobia: A Manual for Short-Term Dynamic Psychotherapy by Leigh McCullough, et al – Recommended by Margaret Martin

Healing through Relating: A Skill-Building Book for Therapists by Jon Frederickson – Recommended by Margaret Martin

Changing Character: Short-term Anxiety-regulating Psychotherapy For Restructuring Defenses, Affects, And Attachment by Leigh Mccullough Vaillant – Recommended by Margaret Martin

Mastering Intensive Short-Term Dynamic Psychotherapy: A Roadmap to the Unconscious by Josette ten Have-de Labije and Robert J. Neborsky – Recommended by Margaret Martin

The Lies We Tell Ourselves by Jon Frederickson – Recommended by Margaret Martin

The Transforming Power Of Affect: A Model For Accelerated Change by Diana Fosha – Recommended by Margaret Martin

A Therapist’s Handbook to Dissolve Shame and Defense and Master the Moment by Susan Warren Warshow – Recommended by Margaret Martin

Hidden From View: A clinician’s guide to psychophysiologic disorders by Allan Abbass – Recommended by Margaret Martin

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