In this episode, Casey sits down with Chris Crittenden, entrepreneur, educator, and co-founder of Sandbox, for a conversation on courage, innovation, and rethinking what education should be. From selling a startup to Walmart to leading at BYU and now building Sandbox into a movement across multiple universities, Chris shares why closing doors and going deep often leads to the greatest returns.

He and Casey explore the flaws of traditional higher education, the trap of chasing prestige, and the power of learning by doing. Chris outlines how Sandbox is equipping students to launch real companies while reshaping themselves in the process. Their discussion dives into resilience, resourcefulness, and why the greatest opportunities often lie off the beaten path.

This episode is both a critique of the old system and a vision for a new one, where students learn through building, failure is embraced as part of the process, and desire becomes the ultimate differentiator.

What you'll learn

• How traditional higher ed’s incentives produce shallow learning—and how changing the “soil” unlocks genuine growth. 
• The launch of the Sandbox Fellowship: a 12-month, accredited master’s built around one job—build a company. 
• The “neobank for universities” model: partnering with New Mexico Highlands University to innovate on top of accredited infrastructure. 
• Why desire beats pedigree for founders, and how door-to-door grit translates into startup success. 

Chapters

00:00 | Welcome & Chris’s background 

00:16 | Walmart exit, BYU connection & early influences 

06:30 | Resourcefulness as the core Sandbox skill

07:14 | Growing up: farm roots, do-it-yourself mindset

09:51 | BYU → Consulting: chasing “stamps” vs. depth 

10:27 | McKinsey, prestige traps, and closing doors 

16:05 | Leaving Duke’s PhD for a startup

17:19 | Joining an unsexy company → billion-dollar outcome

31:11 | Teaching at BYU: joy vs. the politics of change

32:24 | Running the Rollins Center & building inside BYU 

33:24 | Sandbox thesis: learn by doing, start real companies 

35:58 | Early wins: teams into YC, model effects

41:29 | Scaling beyond BYU: UVU story & lucky plane ride 

43:02 | Six campuses: BYU, UVU, Utah State, Utah Tech, Boise State, Louisville 

43:41 | The “neobank for higher ed” insight 

45:27 | Announcing the Sandbox Fellowship (12-month MS, build a company) 

46:42 | Why for-profit: hire the best, build the best experience 

51:39 | Education as human transformation 

53:36 | Sales, rejection, and D2D grit in startups 

56:56 | Failure isn’t opposite of success—it’s part of it 

59:55 | Fellowship launches today + how to apply 

01:01:32 | Who gets in? One word: desire 

01:03:46 | Scale: cohort sizes, no equity, partner funds 

01:05:20 | Faith, purpose, and building for impact  

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