Designing Learning for Behaviour Change with Julie Dirksen - EP 62
Update: 2025-08-27
Description
In this episode, host Beth Cougler Blom talks with Julie Dirksen about designing learning experiences that support real behaviour change. Julie shares insights from her latest book, Talk to the Elephant, and offers practical ways to go beyond knowledge transfer to create meaningful impact.
Beth and Julie also talk about:
- The difference between knowledge gaps and behaviour gaps
- The rider and elephant metaphor and why it matters for learning design
- How to identify what really needs fixing—people or systems
- The importance of pre- and post-learning supports
- Why designing for managers is just as important as designing for learners
Engage with Julie Dirksen
- Website: Usable Learning
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliedirksen/
- Facebook: Design for How People Learn group
Links From the Episode
- Allen Interactions
- Leaving ADDIE for SAM by Michael Allen
- Telling Ain't Training by Harold D. Stolovitch and Erika J. Keep
- The Happiness Hypothesis by Jonathan Haidt
- Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman
- Will Training Help? flowchart by Cathy Moore
- Prochaska and Di Clemente's transtheoretical model
Connect with the Facilitating on Purpose podcast:
- Follow Facilitating on Purpose on Instagram, LinkedIn, or YouTube
- Show notes and transcripts available at facilitatingonpurpose.ca
Connect with Host Beth Cougler Blom:
- Give feedback or suggest upcoming show topics or guests at hello@bcblearning.com
- Visit bcblearning.com to explore Beth's company's services in facilitation and learning design
- Purchase a copy of Beth's book, Design to Engage
- Follow Beth on Instagram or LinkedIn
Podcast production services by Mary Chan of Organized Sound Productions
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