In this conversation, Mark and Anne discuss recent communications from Landmark and debunk the claim that they refuse to respond. They also introduce their guest, Ed Gurowitz, PD.D a psychologist who did the EST training in 1978 and in 1981 went on staff in Werner Erhard's office, traveling and working directly with Werner.

They discuss the history of personal development and the importance of understanding its evolution. Ed shares his experience being one of the EST trainers, being on the "Project to Recreate the Training," which resulted in the creation of the Forum. He shares about leading one of the first Forums with Werner! He also worked at Tekniko until he left the network in 1991.

The conversation covers various topics related to Werner Erhard and the Forum (becomes the Landmark Forum). Some of the main themes include Werner's role, a surprise revelation about how he avoids accountability for his own measures, the pressure to enroll people and the emphasis on registrations and money.

They also discuss the importance of making a difference, the role of tools in personal development, the relationship between Landmark and the fields of psychiatry and psychology, and the reputation and impact of EST and the Landmark Forum.

Key Takeaways

** Recent communications from Landmark have been misleading and false.

** Understanding the history and evolution of personal development is important for the field's growth and ethical practices.

** Ed Gurowitz shares his experience with the EST training, development of the Forum and Teknico.

** There was ALWAYS pressure to enroll people and focus on registrations and money in the Landmark organization. Werner Erhard had a pattern of avoiding accountability and getting others to do the work.

**The desire to make a difference was a driving force for many people involved in the Landmark Forum.

** The Landmark Forum was seen as a tool for personal transformation, with the individual being the source of the difference they wanted to make.

** Werner’s views (per Ed) the fields of psychiatry and psychology, and there was initially respect for these fields within the Landmark community.

** EST and the Landmark Forum had a significant impact on popular culture and were subject to both praise and criticism.