From colonial times through the twentieth century, Western civilization became America’s own cultural heritage, and it was always taught in schools and universities. Then, in the later part of the twentieth century, Americans turned on Western Civ. Why did that happen? What are the consequences for our culture today? What can we do now to recover that heritage? Professor James Hankins joins John Grove, editor of Law & Liberty, to discuss these questions in connection with his new book, The Golden Thread: A History of the Western Tradition.

Related Links

The Golden Thread, by James Hankins and Allen C. Guelzo
“Reviving the Study of Western Civilization,” by James Hankins, Law & Liberty
“The Right Standards for American Schools,” by James Hankins, Law & Liberty
“The Origins of the West,” by Max Skjönsberg, Law & Liberty

Transcript

James Patterson (00:06 ):

Welcome to the Law & Liberty Podcast. I’m your host, James Patterson Law & Liberty is an online magazine featuring serious commentary on law, policy, books, and culture, and formed by a commitment to a society of free and responsible people living under the rule of law. Law & Liberty and this podcast are published by Liberty Fund.

John Grove (00:39 ):

Hello and welcome to the Law & Liberty Podcast. I’m John Grove, the editor of Law & Liberty. I’m filling in this episode for our regular host, James Patterson. Pleased today to be joined once again by Professor James Hankins. Professor Hankins is professor of history at Harvard University and a senior writer for Law & Liberty. He’ll be joining the Hamilton School of Classical and Civic Education at the University of Florida for the 2026 academic year, and he is the author of several books including Virtue Politics and Political Meritocracy in Renaissance Italy. And most recently he has written with Allen Guelzo, The Golden Thread: A History of the Western Tradition, and that is what we’re going to be talking about today. Volume one was released last month, and volume two is scheduled to be out by the end of the year. So Jim, thanks a lot for joining me again.

James Hankins (01:28 ):

It’s a great pleasure to join you.

John Grove (01:30 ):

So before we get into the book itself, I thought we would talk a little bit about the project and where it came from and a little bit about Western civilization and the study of Western Civilization. So I understand you and Allen Guelzo have a relationship that goes way back, far beyond the writing of this book. So tell us a little bit about how you two know each other and where this project came from.

James Hankins (01:54 ):

Okay. Well, Allen is my oldest friend in academia. We went to junior high school (middle school, they call it now) and high school together. We were in the marching band together, but we’ve been close friends for about 55 years now. And we always kept up our friendship and met, and we’ve been talking about Western Civ and other topics for many, many years. We didn’t actually come up with the idea of doing Golden Thread. This was a proposal to us by Encounter Books. They knew of our relationship and they were looking for someone to write a Western Civ book. Encounter is involved in a massive project to reform and revive the study of American history and Western history in a way that is appropriate to our time. As you know, people have taught Western history to educated people for hundreds of years in America.

(02:54 ):

It’s been called Western Civ since, let’s say, the late nineteenth century. But if you went to school in America in the eighteenth century, you would learn about the Greeks and the Romans. You would learn about medieval civilization, you would study history of Europe, all of this. This is standard fare for educated persons in the West since the Renaissance, really. And this stopped rather suddenly about 40 years ago. The educational establishment decided that they wanted to go global. There was discussion of this in an article in Law & Liberty published this week that talked about why it was put down, and how no one gave a thought to what the long-term effects were going to be of not teaching our own tradition. So now we find ourselves in a clash of civilizations—and we do have a clash of civilizations—but the West has unilaterally disarmed itself. We don’t know anything about our own civilization. And believe me, I know this, I teach at Harvard. I teach what are supposed to be the best students in the country and the level of civilizational ignorance is just astonishing.

(04:12 ):

They’re smart kids and they’ve learned what they can learn in high schools, but high schools simply aren’t teaching Western Civ anymore. That stopped also 40 years ago. K12 education gave it up. I once went through the social studies standards for all 50 states, when I wrote another article for Law & Liberty, and it’s just not there anymore. They’re teaching global history now. Anecdotally, I have three nephews who teach in public school system and what they’re teaching as history these days is just completely disengaged from any narrative of the West. And this is a terrible thing for us. As I said before, we’re unilaterally disarming ourselves in the clash of civilization.

John Grove (04:58 ):

Before we go on, why is that? What was happening? Obviously, we know about the radicalism of the ’60s, but what was the rationale? Why were so many people convinced to give up the study of Western Civ?

James Hankins (05:11 ):

Well, it’s partly the Vietnam generation, which didn’t like Western Civ. They thought of it as a Cold War historical phenomenon. This is incorrect, right? Max Skjönsberg published an excellent article recently,

John Grove (05:29 ):

I was going to mention that too.

James Hankins (05:32 ):

… reviewing a book that shows that Western Civ has always been taught. I knew this already because I do Renaissance history. It’s just not true that Western Civ is an artifact of the Cold War, but that’s how the Vietnam generation saw it. And so they didn’t want to teach it anymore. They had a very negative view, not just of the United States, but the whole west. So there’s that element. But I think even more powerful, in the 1980s and ’90s when this was done, was that the universities and colleges in America aspired to globalize themselves. This was a big project at Harvard in 1980s. Derek Bok wanted to make Harvard an international institution. They wanted to found branches in India and there was going to be a Harvard Law School in India, this center and that center. And they were also taking in lots more foreign students than they used to take in.

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