In a Movember male-mental-health special, this week I chat to Professor Viren Swami. Viren is Professor of Social Psychology at Anglia Ruskin University and is ranked in the top 2% of 'most-cited scientists' in the world. Viren's research is focused on the promotion of positive body image in diverse cultural groups, as well as mental health literacy and understandings of mental ill-health.

His work has moved on to include paternal postnatal depression following Viren's own struggles with fatherhood. He talks to me very candidly and movingly about the effects of suffering from PND after the birth of his son. Not to be missed.

*TRIGGER WARNING: Postnatal Depression, Birth Trauma and feelings of Suicide*

IN THIS EPISODE WE DISCUSS:

[00:00 ] Teaser quote.

[01:59 ] Introducing Viren.

[02:54 ] Viren before his son came along.

[03:27 ] The abstract concept of 'having a baby'.

[04:44 ] Viren's work in mental health literacy.

[06:02 ] How men often put off seeking help.

[07:04 ] Highlight to other relevant episodes from S1 - Mark Williams, Elliott Rae and Dr Andy Mayers.

[07:27 ] It's a myth that men don't suffer from postnatal depression - 8-12% of first-time fathers do.

[08:13 ] Applying the term 'postnatal depression' to men can often make people less understanding, due to the misconception they are taking emphasis away from women.

[09:42 ] During the pregnancy, Viren felt estranged and 'not part of the process'.

[10:26 ] The birth itself - an unexpected and traumatic birth at home.

[12:20 ] Holding his son for the first time - feelings of numbness and not wanting to be there.

[15:09 ] The overwhelming responsibility of having a tiny human being and not knowing what to do.

[15:50 ] Problems with sleep.

[19:30 ] Viren's wife's experience - worrying about Viren on top of being a new mum.

[20:48 ] Issues with Jesse not feeding. Feelings of helplessness and not being able to 'fix' things.

[23:16 ] Struggling to function normally. Feelings of shame.

[24:21 ] Research study demonstrated the difference in how people perceived PND in mums and fathers.

[25:23 ] Keeping his feelings hidden.

[27:44 ] The devastating consequences of men suffering from postnatal depression.

[29:18 ] Depression doesn't get better on its own - the importance of talking.

[30:15 ] Internalising the depression, "there's nothing wrong with me!"

[31:04 ] Once opening up to a health visitor and being shut down.

[33:42 ] Plans for screening fathers - the need for everyone to be screened.

[35:33 ] Fears around being 'mentally ill' or having his son taken away.

[36:34 ] Feelings of anger at everything.

[37:08 ] "Why'd you hate me?" Irrational thoughts that Viren wasn't needed by his family. Feelings of suicide and battling himself.

[39:22 ] Feelings of love for Jesse didn't come till much later.

[41:17 ] The turning point - a letter from his wife and a visit to his GP.

[43:55 ] Advice for dads going through it right now. The affect of non-help-seeking on your family.

[46:33 ] Getting better isn't a linear process - there will be many ups and downs along the way.

[48:39 ] Realising that 'it's not your fault'.

[50:10 ] Playing with Jesse in front of his psychotherapist and being told that he was a good parent.

[52:00 ] Falling in love with his son and learning how to 'parent'.

[53:14 ] Breaking the fear of taking his son out on his own.

[55:06 ] The brilliance of baby cinema, like the Picturehouse's 'Big Scream'.

[56:03 ] The difficulty 'rationalising' those intrusive thoughts.

[56:28 ] The potential to be depressed after the birth of a child exists in everyone.

[57:29 ] So many people go through this experience - it is not shameful.

[58:18 ] We need to look at helping the family unit as a whole, whatever your family looks like.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

1. For many dads, the idea of 'having a baby' is an abstract concept.
2. Mental health literacy is the idea of how non-scientists understand what mental health is, how they think illnesses like depression happen.
3. Men often put off seeking help as it doesn't fit their conception of what 'being masculine' means. They can also lack the vocabulary to explain how they are feeling.
4. 8-12% of first time fathers will experience debilitating depression, anxiety or extreme stress.
5. Difficulty with feeding can be one of the biggest contributors to psychological distress in new mums.
6. A research study proved that people use the term 'postnatal depression' for symptoms in mums but 'exhaustion' or 'tiredness' for the same symptoms in dads.
7. Tragically 1 in 10 men who experience depression will take their own lives.
8. PND in men can have a devastating affect on the whole family - it can create feelings of rage and anger, can trigger PND in the mum and can affect the cognitive and linguistic development of the baby.
9. Depression doesn't get better on its own - seeking support is crucial. There are loads of links in the show notes but your GP should always be your first port of call. Please talk.
10. Health visitors need better training to understand cues for depression in dads.
11. For many dads, they don't truly begin to bond with their child until they are older and interacting more.
12. There are many pathways into care - from simply opening up to a friend or your family, to speaking to your GP or a psychotherapist.
13. Non-help-seeking behaviour impacts on the whole family - the sooner you seek help, the better it is for them.
14. Recovery isn't linear. There will be lots of ups and downs along the way and that is normal. But the good days will outweigh the bad with time.
15. It is important to remember that depression is not your fault, it is a mental illness.
16. Viren's research has proven that the potential to be depressed after the birth of your baby exists in everyone - no-one is immune.
17. Asking for help is not shameful - it's the most powerful thing you want to do.
18. Often men find once they are given a safe space to talk, they want to keep talking, they want to open up.
19. Routine screening for all parents-to-be and parenting classes could make such a difference to the mental health of families.
20. Picturehouse 'Big Scream' baby cinema.
21. Movember is the leading charity changing the face of men's health. You can Donate to Movember here.
22. Support for fathers can be found here: Fathers Reaching Out, Music Football Fatherhood, PMH Support, Dope Black Dads and Dad Matters.
23. LISTEN: Blue MumDays S1 Ep 3 Elliott Rae on PTSD in Fathers.
24. LISTEN: Blue MumDays S1 Ep 8 The Daddy Blues with Mark Williams and S1 Ep 9 Mark Williams part 2 on PND in Fathers.
25. LISTEN: Blue MumDays S1 Ep 18 Dr Andrew Mayers which discusses PND in dads.

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Email: bluemumdays@gmail.com

NEXT EPISODE:

Next time I chat to Dr Orinayo Onabanjo, a chartered counselling psychologist with a passion for perinatal mental health. Orin's skills include helping mums cultivate stronger attachments with their babies and addressing the impact unresolved childhood trauma can have on the journey of motherhood. We chat everything from mum guilt to the racist inequalities faced by black and brown parents in the UK maternity system.

SUPPORT:

If you are struggling right now, please know t