Here at ChinaTalk, we break the ice on all things international relations, and today we are diving into a topic that is snow joke — icebreakers! 

We interviewed William Henagan and Robert Obayda, both directors of the NSC. We discuss:

• How Canada, Finland, and the United States are leveling up their cooperation in the Arctic through the Icebreaker Collaboration Effort (ICE Pact); 


• The mechanics of industrial policy in the US government;


• Why cranes matter for national security, and the benefits of using carrots vs sticks;


• What icebreakers are for, and how Finland is punching above its weight in the NATO alliance.

Co-hosting today is former ChinaTalk intern Alexander Boyd, who is currently at the China Digital Times. 

Outtro music: Arctic Monkeys — A Certain Romance (link) and Mardy Bum (link)

Pictured: the Russian icebreaker Yamal.

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