Kari and Lisa had other plans for this week's episode—but the world felt too heavy to ignore. They returned to Isabel Wilkerson's Caste: The Origins of Our Discontents because it offers something essential right now: a way to understand the invisible structure beneath so much of the chaos, cruelty, and division we're witnessing. In this conversation, they break down key ideas from the book, reflect on their own roles in the system, and connect the dots between caste and current events—from ICE raids to economic inequality to the enforcement of social hierarchies through fear and policy. This episode is about seeing what's really holding us back—and deciding what we're willing to do about it.

Learn more about and read  Caste, by Isabel Wilkerson

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