In this episode of Science From the Fringe, Bryce Nickels talks with Pulitzer Prize–winning reporter, Lewis Kamb, of public health research group, U.S. Right to Know.

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Kamb discusses his investigative reporting—from exposing Boeing’s 737 MAX failures at The Seattle Times to serving as NBC News’ first national FOIA reporter. He explains how the Freedom of Information Act—“the people’s subpoena”— has been used to expose the secrets of some of our country’s most powerful institutions.

Kamb’s recent investigative work on COVID-19 origins includes uncovering a classified 2020 Defense Intelligence Agency analysis suggesting SARS-CoV-2 could have originated from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, as well unearthing several NIH emails from 2016 that show semantic side-stepping of gain-of-function classification in order to approve EcoHealth’s chimeric virus experiments.

The conversation concludes with thought-provoking discussion of the pitfalls of FOIA and whether the process, in practice, lives up to the intent.

Timestamps00:00:37 – Introduction of Lewis Kamb.00:01:12 – Kamb discusses the Boeing 737 MAX investigation.00:03:11 – Nickels asks about Kamb’s FOIA expertise.00:03:41 – Kamb explains FOIA as the “people’s subpoena.”00:05:58 – Tips for effective FOIA requests.00:06:29 – Overview of U.S. Right to Know.00:08:39 – Kamb on USRTK’s FOIA litigation strategy.00:10:07 – FOIA delays and agency differences.00:15:10 – Transparency promises left unfulfilled.00:19:01 – Shift to COVID origins and the DIA report.00:20:14 – DIA’s early lab-origin assessment.00:28:21 – 2014 gain-of-function moratorium.00:30:37 – NIH deliberations on EcoHealth proposal.00:33:10 – Links to pandemic origins.00:36:43 – NIH oversight vs. FAA-Boeing failures.00:39:29 – Daszak’s “typo” in progress report.00:42:17 – Discussion of the DEFUSE proposal.00:45:00 – NIH’s delayed moratorium defense.00:50:55 – Future investigations into labs and intelligence agencies.00:52:03 – FOIA’s flaws and need for reform.00:58:04 – Closing remarks.

intro and outro music by Tess Parks

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