Welcome to Say More, the podcast where we go beyond the performance. In this series, I sit down with creators, healers, and thought leaders to explore how they navigate life’s crossroads—especially when the old scripts no longer serve. 

Today’s guest is Dr. Noelle Santorelli—psychologist, trauma specialist, and the voice behind one of the most honest conversations happening online around Mean Girl Mom culture and relational aggression. If you’ve ever felt the chill of the silent treatment at school drop-off or the covert cruelty inside a so-called sisterhood, this one’s for you.

We talk about what relational aggression really looks like among adults, why this behavior spikes in high-performing communities, and how to break the cycle before it reaches our kids. Noelle shares her framework for setting low-lift boundaries, naming toxicity without shame, and raising emotionally intelligent children by modeling authentic relationships ourselves.

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🎙️ Connect with Noelle

Instagram: @drnoellesantorelli

💫 Connect with Brooke

Instagram: @brookielyons

Substack: We Need to Talk About

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🔑 Key Themes

* Understanding relational aggression in adult communities

* Why Mean Mom behavior isn’t just petty—it’s psychological

* The covert ways parents shape their kids’ social dynamics

* Scarcity mentality in high-achieving environments

* The myth of “being nice” and the power of authentic boundaries

* How to break cycles of emotional harm—without losing your center

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🧭 Chapters

00:00 Mean Mom Culture: The Personal Wake-Up Call

06:03 From Trauma Work to Toxic Systems

09:05 What Is Relational Aggression, Really?

12:20 Why This Behavior Spikes in Motherhood

17:01 Scarcity, Control, and Social Hierarchies

21:11 How It Impacts Our Children—Overtly and Covertly

29:19 What to Do When You Can’t Walk Away

31:34 Recognizing When You’re Playing Along

34:50 The Art of Disrupting the Cycle Gently

36:24 Where Do We Draw the Line?

40:17 Authenticity ≠ Rudeness

43:20 Acceptance as a Nervous System Reset

47:01 Why Pain Is Inevitable—but Suffering Isn’t

51:35 Affluence, Anxiety, and the Pressure to Perform

53:23 Three Tools to Break the Cycle

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🧰 Resources

* Follow Noelle on Instagram for tools, insights, and upcoming guides

* We discussed Jennifer Wallace’s book Never Enough (on pressure, performance, and parenting)

* Noelle recommended the book Danielle Bayard Jackson’s book Fighting for Our Friendships

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🎙 Hosted by Brooke Lyons

Actress, writer, mother, mystic, and voice behind Say More—a podcast that explores identity, reinvention, and what happens when you stop performing and start telling the truth.

Get full access to We Need to Talk About... with Brooke Lyons at brookelyons.substack.com/subscribe