About this Episode

Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.
In this engaging episode, we have a special guest, Jessica Keaney, a licensed social worker with a wealth of experience in community corrections. Together, we delve into the world of motivational interviewing (MI) and discuss its profound impact on the criminal justice system. We explore the power of empathetic conversations, reflective listening, and the transformative potential of helping individuals align their behavior with their values. Join us as we gain insights from Jessica’s expertise and learn how MI can create positive outcomes and reduce recidivism in our communities.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The serendipitous encounter with Jessica at the Mint Conference and the value of authentic connections.


• A closer look at the Mint Conference, an annual gathering for MI practitioners.


• The significance of empathetic conversations and personal connections at professional events.


• Delving into the core principles of motivational interviewing (MI) and its departure from traditional approaches in the criminal justice system.


• The pivotal role of reflective listening in MI, with a focus on overcoming resistance.


• Validating clients’ feelings and experiences as a key component of the MI process.


• Empowering individuals to harmonize their actions with their deeply held values.


• Emphasizing the importance of empathy and compassion in guiding individuals through the justice system.


• Jessica’s valuable insights into utilizing MI to foster positive outcomes and reduce recidivism in our communities.

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!
Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

Transcribe

 Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin, here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world.

Hi everyone. I’m Danielle Cantin here facilitating the communication solution podcast with our favorite Casey Jackson.

Hey Casey. And we are so excited because we have a special guest today. We have Jessica Keaney. She is a licensed social worker from Massachusetts and she works in community corrections. She’s got an incredible background. I’m going to let her share more about who she is.  But what’s really fun is how they came to meet at the mint conference in Copenhagen this year.

 So as you know, if you’ve listened to our other podcasts, the mint conference. Happens every year, the international motivational interviewing network of trainers conference. So it’s kind of fun. I think I’ll let you guys explain the story of how you met and turn it over to you, Casey. Well, I am excited because I love having people on to chat with, you don’t love having John on here, but just the story is fascinating to me.

   So I’m sitting, having lunch,  at the for  with some buddies of mine. And the forum’s an amazing place to just see people from all over the world that you have kind of this heart connection with and, and mind connection, because we share the connection over motivational interviewing and, and what that means.

And I’m eating lunch and,  and then just makes a comment about the food.  Because I’m vegetarian, she’s vegetarian. And I’m like, yeah, the food has been awesome here. Like just surprisingly good. And then everyone just kind of keeps talking. She’s talking to the person she’s sitting next to. And then there’s a comment about social worker.

And then she’s like, I’m a social worker too. And then we kind of high five because we’re both social workers. And then Jess, I’ll turn it over to you because this is where I was like, then I’m kind of talking and eating and,  just. Benign sitting there. Yeah. So I just, I’m like, where do I know that voice from?

Where do I know that voice from? And I’m like.

I was like, I think I said, are you Casey Jackson? Like, if you were like an A list Oscar winner, cause to me, you know, that’s sort of, you know, how I think of you.  And so we just were chatting and I think you felt bad for me. Cause you were like, Oh, this girl is my big fan. And you were like, come on my podcast.

You know, what I was shocked is I said, Oh, you’re the one person that listens to the podcast. So you’re like, no, I love this podcast. I’m just like, that is just crazy. Cause I just forget that people actually listen, you know, I love talking. Am I, we like getting into these kinds of topics, but you just don’t know who listens and every time we tend to wrap up with, Hey, if you want to be on the podcast, if you have questions, so then you, as you and I were chatting, it’s like, Jess, come on the podcast.

So it was perfect. And now here you are. Yes. So, and one of the things that was fun about that was, and where it started, the idea of even just like, where it’s like, come on, the podcast is we just started talking about, we’re talking, I don’t even know how it came up about the reflective listening. Do you remember your, I think in a training with the way that you train with the population you work with.

Oh, yes. I don’t even, you’re right. I don’t even know how it happened, but all of a sudden we were minutes into a conversation about reflections.  And I think I sort of said like these forums have been great because I think it gave a different way to think about training,  reflections. And so,  cause I find a lot of times,  some of the folks in the trainings.

 You know, struggle with reflections and what they think reflections might mean and all those sorts of things, which, which is so common. And that’s where I think you and I started chatting about it. There was so much fun. I thought this is such a perfect podcast. I mean, we talked about reflective listening in the podcast, you know, we get into all sorts of MI skills and techniques, but I know that it’s so much more complex in the world of law enforcement and corrections.

It’s just, it can feel like. You know, well, we don’t do hug a thug, or this is a little too counselor technique for me, or I’ve just got to be real, you know, I’m not going to pussyfoot around. And,  all these things that people tend to think of, especially in those professions, but that is so different than expressing accurate empathy, which I think.

You know, so many people have the capacity to do, but they get it consolidated into a reflective statement and it feels like it’s not going to have the potency and that’s where you and I started going into, yeah, that’s so fascinating to train it differently because it’s kind of beyond the or skills when we’re looking at empathy.

And that was just, that conversation was just a blast for me. Yeah, definitely. Definitely wasn’t. It just, I don’t know. It was like something clicked to me in that moment. I was like. Maybe I just ask the folks I’m training have, which again is a closed ended question, but closed ended questions aren’t bad, but you know, have you ever said to somebody you look tired and just, and then their conversation with like, what made you ask somebody if they look tired and get to say like, that’s actually a reflection as like a way to maybe help them.

You know, understand that or grasp the concept of reflections a little bit easier. I don’t know. I love that because I think where people struggle is in regurgitating language and that’s, I think when they think of kind of traditional gerian reflective listening, it’s that kind of regurgitation or paraphrasing or parenting it back.

And when you said that what was so I thought was such a smart way to frame it, is it’s what I teach or push people into trusting their instinct a little bit more. Like when you can see somebody is clearly tired and you say, you know, you look tired. That’s, that’s a reflective. That’s like, you’re getting a good sense of how this person is thinking or feeling, or just from some observations, but they didn’t just say that you have some instinctual sense.

And that is the nature of what high accurate empathy is versus just repeating the last three words that they said, which is what so many people can reduce reflective listening down to. You know, if you guys don’t mind me jumping in, coming in as like an outsider from motivational interviewing, I think it’s really interesting because of my background, I was taught the reflective listening that you just described, which is more regurgitation.

And you just painted a great picture for me in law enforcement, where it’s just like, no, I gotta be real. I gotta be this. I can’t do that stuff. I mean, they’re going to call me on it. What I don’t want to put you on the spot, but could you give an example of. What you think somebody would say or how they would say it or think they should say it to be real and then a way that they could actually say it that that would be filled with emp