Podcast #627: How to Deal With Jerks, Bullies, Tyrants, and Trolls
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There are some people in life who are more than unpleasant, more than annoying. They’re real, genuine a**holes.
My guest today has written the preeminent field guides to identifying, dealing with, and avoiding all of life’s jerks, bullies, tyrants, and trolls: The No Asshole Rule and The Asshole Survival Guide. His name is Bob Sutton, he’s a Stanford professor of organization and management, and we begin our conversation together with how Bob defines what makes an a-hole an a-hole, what causes their jerkiness, and the costs of having such disagreeable people as part of an organization. We then get into the circumstances of when being a jerk yourself can actually be advantageous. We then turn to how to deal with the jerks in your own life, including distancing yourself from them, deciding you’re going to be better than them, and imagining you’re a jerk collector encountering a new species of jerk. Bob explains smart ways to fight back against jerks, and gets into the wisdom of documenting their jerkiness, why it’s occasionally helpful to take an aggressive stand, and how even Steve Jobs learned how to be less of an a-hole. We end our conversation with how to build a jerk-free workplace.
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Show Highlights
- How do you know if you’re dealing with a jerk or just someone having a hard day?
- Why you should be slow to characterize someone as an a-hole
- How do jerks become jerks?
- The costs of jerks to productivity
- The occasional benefits of being a jerk
- Ins and outs of dealing with jerks
- Why you need to document the actions and behaviors of a-holes
- What does it look like to fight back against a jerk?
- How do you deal with superstars who are jerks?
Resources/People/Articles Mentioned in Podcast
- How to Deal With Aggressive People
- How to Cut Toxic People Out of Your Life
- Sizing People Up
- The Last Dance
- Beware the Tit for Tat Trap
- How to Deal With Bad Coworkers
- How to Stand Up to Your Boss
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Read the Transcript
Brett McKay: Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of The Art of Manliness podcast. There are some people in life who are more than unpleasant, more than annoying, they’re real genuine a**holes. My guest today has written the pre-eminent field guide to identifying, dealing with and avoiding all of life’s jerks, bullies, tyrants and trolls. His first books, “The No A-hole Rule” the second one was “The A-hole Survival Guide”. His name is Bob Sutton, he’s a Stanford Professor of Organization and Management and we begin our conversation together with how Bob defines what makes a jerk a jerk, what causes their jerkiness and the cost of having such disagreeable people as part of an organization. We then get into the circumstances of when being a jerk yourself can actually be advantageous. We then turn to how to deal with all the jerks in your own life including distancing yourself from them, deciding you’re going to be better than them and imagining your jerk collector encountering a new species of jerk. Bob explains smart ways to fight back against jerks and gets into the wisdom of documenting their jerkiness, why it’s occasionally helpful to make an aggressive stand and how even Steve Jobs learned to be less of an A-hole. We end our conversation with how to build a jerk-free workplace, after the show is over check out our show notes at aom.is/jerks.
Alright, Bob Sutton, welcome to the show.
Bob Sutton: It’s great to be here.
Brett McKay: So you are a professor of Management Science at Stanford University, but because of an article you wrote and then two books you’ve written, you’ve become known as the A-hole guy. The first book was “The No A-hole Rule” and then the most recent one was “The A-hole Survival Guide”. How did this happen, how did you become the A-hole guy?
Bob Sutton: Well, there’s two answers to that question, one is the way I was raised which is, my dad used to always tell me to not be an A-hole and because if you treat people like that you do two things, number one is you hurt people and number two is actually in life people hold it against you and they kinda lie in wait and stab you in the back. So there was that, and then in about 2004 I got an interesting call from a woman named Julia Kirby who was an editor at Harvard Business Review and she said, “Do you have any ideas for Breakthrough Ideas.” They used to run an annual Breakthrough Ideas section, and I said, “I have an idea I’m interested in. It’s not a breakthrough idea I’d heard it my whole life and it entails using a dirty seven-letter word that you would never publish in a respectable publication like the Harvard Business Review.” Well, Julia called my bluff and I sent in this article which by the way had the word in it too many times ’cause I thou
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