How do you stay close to someone whose pain you can’t fix, whose questions you can’t answer? In this episode, Kate sits down with her dear friend, the Rev. Dr. Sam Wells, a longtime advocate of “being with,” a theology that goes beyond advice and into the sacred space of simply staying. Sam–vicar at London’s St.-Martin-in-the-Fields, an astonishingly wise thinker, and one of Kate’s favorite people on Earth–invites us into a deeper courage: to show up without trying to tidy things up. 

In this beautifully honest conversation, Kate and Sam talk about:

1. Why love can be so hard

2. What it means to let go of the need to “help”

3. The surprising beauty of just… showing up. 

For everyone exhausted by easy answers, this episode is a hand to hold in the dark.

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

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