Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

 

In this episode, Justin interviews Shawn Punancy, Sr. Manager, Enterprise Risk Management of Delta Air Lines, Inc. Justin and Shawn discuss her fascinating career history, disruption in the airline industry, Shawn's risk philosophy at Delta Airlines, and how her ERM team stays connected to the business while maintaining a long-term strategic view of risk.

 

Shawn will present two sessions with Lianne Appelt, the Head of Enterprise Risk Management at Salesforce, at the RIMS ERM Conference on November 17th and 18th in Seattle, Washington. Shawn shares some hints on what to expect from the sessions.

 

Listen for Shawn's view on the biggest opportunity right now for ERM professionals to elevate their impact across the enterprise.

 

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:15] The RIMS CRO Certificate Program in Advanced Enterprise Risk Management is our live virtual program led by the famous James Lam. Great news! A third cohort has been announced, from January through March 2026.

[:32] Registration closes January 5th. Enroll now! A link is in this episode's show notes.

[:40] About this episode of RIMScast. We are flying high today, with Shawn Punancy, the Manager of Enterprise Risk Management for Delta Air Lines, Inc. Buckle in for the many aviation puns you're going to hear during this episode! But first…

[1:12 ] RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops! The next RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops will be held on October 29th and 30th and led by John Button.

[1:24 ] The next RIMS-CRMP-FED Virtual Workshop will be held on November 11th and 12th and led by Joseph Mayo. Links to these courses can be found through the Certifications page of RIMS.org and through this episode's show notes.

[1:41 ] RIMS Virtual Workshops! RIMS has launched a new course, "Intro to ERM for Senior Leaders." It will be held again on November 4th and 5th and will be led by Elise Farnham.

[1:56 ] On November 11th and 12th, Chris Hansen will lead "Fundamentals of Insurance". It features everything you've always wanted to know about insurance but were afraid to ask. Fear not; ask Chris Hansen! RIMS members always enjoy deep discounts on the virtual workshops!

[2:15 ] The full schedule of virtual workshops can be found on the RIMS.org/education and RIMS.org/education/online-learning pages. A link is also in this episode's notes.

[2:26 ] RIMS Webinars! On October 30th, Swiss Re will present "Parametric Insurance: Providing Financial Certainty in Uncertain Times". On November 6th, HUB will present "Geopolitical Whiplash — Building Resilient Global Risk Programs in an Unstable World".

[2:47 ] Register at RIMS.org/Webinars.

[2:50 ] On with the show! Our guest today is the Manager of Enterprise Risk Management for Delta Air Lines, Inc. Her name is Shawn Punancy, and she has a fascinating career that I want to delve into today.

[3:03 ] I also asked her to be on the show because she will have quite a presence at the RIMS ERM Conference 2025, which will be held on November 17th and 18th in Seattle, Washington.

[3:14 ] On November 17th, at 11:45 a.m., she will be co-leading "Connections Count: Strategic Networking to Strengthen Risk Oversight." On November 18th, at 9:00 a.m., she will co-lead "How Deep Should You Go?: Rightsizing Risk Assessment for Maximum Impact."

[3:33 ] In addition to learning about her fascinating career, I wanted to get a little preview of each of those sessions and learn a bit about her risk philosophy at Delta. Let's get to it!

[3:44 ] Interview! Shawn Punancy, welcome to RIMScast!

[3:53 ] Shawn Punancy is the ERM Senior Manager at Delta Air Lines, Inc. Shawn will be at the RIMS ERM Conference 2025, November 17th and 18th. Shawn has a fascinating career.

[5:00 ] Shawn was an intelligence analyst at the U.S. DOD from 2011 to 2012, then moved to the CIA as a Senior Intelligence Analyst for seven years.

[5:18 ] Shawn says it was great working at the CIA. She thinks there are very few places where you can work and have such broad awareness. Her year at the DOD was to prepare her to work at the CIA.

[6:10 ] As an Analyst, Shawn worked in counter-terrorism, counter-narcotics, traditional political analysis, and leadership analysis. She did some targeting work, which is helpful for ERM.

[6:27 ] After Shawn left the government, she worked briefly for a consulting firm in Atlanta, Georgia, doing business operating risk. She got word of a job in the Delta Corporate Safety and Security Division on the Intelligence and Risk Mitigation Team.

[6:51 ] Shawn joined Delta, doing that for two years. She got to meet her Director, Eric Mai, whom she absolutely adores, and she's not just saying that because he may listen to this! Eric Mai introduced Shawn to the world of ERM.

[7:07 ] Shawn started to see all the nexuses that existed between multiple different risks. Shawn says that working in corporate security on risk mitigation is like working at the DOD, but working in ERM is like working at the CIA.

[7:42 ] Shawn was in high school on 9/11, and her mother was on a plane during the 9/11 attacks. Thankfully, she was not on a plane that was targeted on that terrible day. It left a lasting impression.

[7:55 ] Shawn went on to study those types of events in International Affairs and Politics. That's how she got to her path in the government. Shawn is mission-driven and purposeful in her work.

[8:42 ] Shawn applied to Delta when someone sent her a job posting. Shawn saw the posting and thought it looked like it was written for her. Shawn is thankful it worked out.

[8:58 ] Shawn started as Program Manager for Intelligence and Risk Mitigation. She held that position for almost two years. In December of 2023, Shawn became Manager of ERM. The position did not exist before Shawn. ERM had been one person since 2019, when it was begun.

[9:37 ] Eric Mai set up the ERM program. He realized that for it to continuously improve and grow, he needed another person. He went to bat for that role. Around the time it was posted, Eric came to Shawn and said that she might want to consider it, and he would love to have her apply.

[9:57 ] Shawn is super grateful that Eric asked her.

[10:13 ] Shawn says it is striking that ERM has played a small role in many companies. What if you don't know who that person is, or you're not engaging with that person?

[10:53 ] Shawn has noticed that in several industries, the aviation industry included, everything is highly siloed. How does one ERM person get to everybody across the business? How do they make ERM relevant for the leadership and the board?

[11:15 ] Something different could happen any day in the airline industry. Shawn says every day they get a notification from their Duty Director about what the day will look like. Some days, the system looks good: they're moving tens of thousands of people on several thousand flights.

[11:33 ] Other days, there's a hurricane or something, or there is a strike somewhere that completely upends the day. It's a lively environment.

[11:56 ] The American Airlines regional jet and helicopter crash in Washington, D.C. this year put a spotlight on Safety and Risk Managers to ensure they had the proper protocols in place and understood all the communication channels. They double-checked the protocols.

[12:40 ] One thing Shawn loves about the airline industry is that safety is for everyone. There's no competition in safety. No one places blame. They come together to ensure that they are in the best position to continue to put safety first, not only for customers but also for all employees.

[13:17 ] If Shawn had a mantra, it would be, You get further together than you do as an individual. She learned that from her time in Corporate Safety and Security and as an ERM professional. She could not do her job without relationships and connections across the company.

[14:05 ] Shawn says Delta has a strong governance structure. The risk committee reports to the executive leadership team. ERM meets with the risk committee monthly to talk about what is coming up. ERM tracks that, so as risks build, they remember what was said months ago.

[14:29 ] They prepare themselves for the known events of the next couple of months, such as an upcoming audit, an issue with plane manufacturers, or a suspected coming fleet delay.

[14:53 ] ERM uses its governance structure to think through how to manage the risk, who is responsible, who is touched, what should be reported up to the leadership, and what can be managed at the business level.

[15:07 ] Looking longer-t