In this Uprising Podcast episode hosted by Andy Cleff, Michael "Mad Dog" Dougherty and Pete "OK" Oliver-Krueger discuss their new book "Shift from Product to People" - a novel exploring the third wave of agile adoption. Through rich character development inspired by real people and the Enneagram personality system, they illustrate how organizations struggle even after implementing agile practices and DevOps. Mike and Pete reveal why focusing on frameworks and processes alone isn't enough, sharing their vision of people-first transformation. They discuss the evolution from individual team agility (Wave 1) through scaled frameworks (Wave 2) to their proposed third wave - returning focus to people while solving real organizational problems. Drawing from their extensive consulting experience, Mad Dog and OK explore how the consulting industry's obsession with frameworks has sometimes overshadowed the human element that makes agile truly effective. They also preview their next two books that will complete the trilogy, including "Shift from Products to Problems." Key Topics: The three waves of agile adoption Why organizations fail despite "doing all the right things" Using the Enneagram for authentic character development The future of agile in a post-framework world Balancing people focus with business outcomes Links Book/Kindle Shift: From Product To People: A Novel About Product Development, and Shifting to People To Achieve a Holistic Agile Transformation Contact Info https://www.linkedin.com/in/agilemichaeldougherty/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/peteok/ https://twitter.com/doughertymic Websites https://www.libraryofagile.org/ https://leanagileenterprises.com/ https://www.shiftingpeople.com/ The Nine Enneagram Type Descriptions Did Agile Shit the Bed? Previous Episodes Jan 24, 2021: Shift: From Product to People with Pete Oliver-Krueger and Michael Dougherty Jan 16, 2022: TheoryU with Jason Little, Mike Dougherty, and Pete Oliver-Krueger Jan 30 2022: The Library of Agile with Mike Dougherty and Pete Oliver-Krueger Related Podcasts: Dark Side of Agile Coaching (2018) Zombie Agile with Prof. Dave Snowden (2018) Sociocracy (Episode 1 of n) with Ted Rau (2021) Who Decides Who Decides: Getting Started with Sociocracy (2021) Closing Tunes: Your Brains by Jonathan Coulton is licensed under a Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 International License. About the Agile Uprising If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a review, a rating, or leave comments on iTunes, Stitcher or your podcasting platform of choice. It really helps others find us. If you'd like to join the discussion and share your stories, please jump into the fray at our Discord Server! We at the Agile Uprising are committed to being totally free. However, if you'd like to contribute and help us defray hosting and production costs we do have a Patreon. Who knows, you might even get some surprises in the mail! AU Merch:https://www.stickermule.com/cb87073cb7b3a36