In part three of The 9th Floor, Guyon Espiner talks to Jim Bolger, who steered New Zealand through a turbulent seven years that saw more economic upheaval, a resetting of race relations and the arrival of MMP.

In part three of The 9th Floor, Guyon Espiner talks to Jim Bolger, who steered New Zealand through a turbulent seven years that saw more economic upheaval, a resetting of race relations and the arrival of MMP.

Watch a video of the interview here.

By Guyon Espiner

I think Jim Bolger might be about to spark a debate. Two debates, actually. One on our economic settings and the other on race relations.

He says neo-liberalism has failed and suggests unions should have a stronger voice. He says Treaty of Waitangi settlements may not be full and final and that Māori language tuition should be compulsory in primary schools.

It was striking, sitting in Jim Bolger's Waikanae home for the third episode of The 9th Floor, just how many of the issues he grappled with in the 1990s are still alive and being debated rigorously today.

Adding to that sense of history was the fact that John Key resigned while we were discussing with Bolger what it was like to be a third-term National Prime Minister.

There was a little bit of personal history for me, too, and we'll come to that. But first the policy.

Bolger says neo-liberal economic policies have absolutely failed. It's not uncommon to hear that now; even the IMF says so. But to hear it from a former National Prime Minister who pursued privatisation, labour market deregulation, welfare cuts and tax reductions - well, that's pretty interesting.

"They have failed to produce economic growth and what growth there has been has gone to the few at the top," Bolger says, not of his own policies specifically but of neo-liberalism the world over. He laments the levels of inequality and concludes "that model needs to change."

But hang on. Didn't he, along with Finance Minister Ruth Richardson, embark on that model, or at least enthusiastically pick up from where Roger Douglas and the Fourth Labour Government left off?

Bolger doesn't have a problem calling those policies neo-liberal although he prefers to call them "pragmatic" decisions to respond to the circumstances. It sets us up for the ride we go on with Bolger through the 1990s, a time of radical social and economic change.

"They have failed to produce economic growth and what growth there has been has gone to the few at the top" - Jim Bolger…

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details