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Transcript of Podcast Episode

Tragedy, Trauma and Mess: How a Psychologist Helped the Survivors of Grenfell

Foundations: How and why did Hannah become a psychologist?

Rosie (00:00 ):

Today, I'm talking to Hannah Abrahams. Hannah is an educational and child psychologist who's worked beyond the therapy room in both the public and private sector, starting out as a primary school teacher before training as an ed psych in 2005. She's been involved in projects that would seriously intimidate most of us, including setting up a school and supporting the community after the tragedy of the Grenfell Tower. Not to mention setting up and building her own private practice. Welcome to the podcast, Hannah, there's so much that I want to ask you about and so much that we could talk about. So let's start at the beginning. What inspired you to leave teaching and become an ed psych?

Hannah (00:38 ):

Gosh, what a big question, and what an introduction. It actually made me really emotional listening to that. I think I always knew that I wanted to work with special needs children, and in my second year of teaching, it was really made concrete. There was a little boy that I had in my class who had been diagnosed very early on with autism. And we formed a really strong bond and a really good understanding of each other. And I think that absolutely cemented the fact that I knew that I wanted to go and work as an educational psychologist and kind of work in a more systemic way supporting staff and families and working very collaboratively. Yeah, the picture of him and my mind is so clear, but I remember coming into the class one day just going, yep, I absolutely have to follow this. So I think I had an idea from very early on.

Hannah (01:35 ):

I also did work experience when I was 16 in a school for children who were deaf, and they taught me to sign really quickly. Obviously, I was not fluent. But I think for me it's always been about communication, and interestingly, about communication with people who find it more difficult to communicate in the neuro-typical way. So I think from a really young age, I was really interested in building relationships and building bonds. And I think that ed psychs have an incredible gift of being able to do that in all sorts of different settings. So I hope that answers your first question.

Rosie (02:09 ):

Yeah, it does. I mean, I was just thinking about how strong that motivation must've been. Like you've literally, I can see, the audience can't, but I can, and see like Hannah gets really animated when she's thinking about that boy. I'm thinking, was that what got you through what must've been really difficult? Because training as a psychologist is hard, especially as a second career.

Hannah (02:29 ):

Yeah, I think I had a real clear vision, I was very lucky because I had a very clear vision right from the start. And I'd read psychology at university with a kind of view to, I know I want to follow this. But I also think that I wanted to work with children in the sense that at that age I was probably quite naive and thinking, well, you can make a bigger difference with younger people. And I suppose it's maternal instincts and mothering instincts as well that kind of kick in. So I think that very much played a part.

Hannah (03:08 ):

Training to be a psychologist is incredibly tough. You will know too. It's really, really tough. And I think there is the difference of becoming an ed psych, because when I trained you had to be a teacher, and we had all these teachers who'd come in, who'd felt incredibly confident and competent being in a classroom, and then when you're training to be a psychologist you're questioning everything, and suddenly you feel like your skill base is zero, and you're looking around for validation the whole time. And it was very... What's the word? There was a very uneven feel about walking into their schools when you knew you understood a school, but suddenly you were coming in as the outsider.

Hannah (03:54 ):

And I think that was the part of the training as a psychologist that was the really, really tough bit, is that suddenly you just felt completely deskilled. But actually we understood how schools worked, and the pressure that teachers were under, and the pressure that families were under, and the different systems in place. So I think that plays a massive part in rebuilding your confidence when you're training.

Hannah (04:20 ):

I think it's interesting, because I always question, when psychologists only train others, and the meaning behind that, and what are their needs ultimately? Because being in the front line is a very different place to be. So it's political, but I've always noted it and noticed it and questioned it, but maybe that's because I'm not a lecturer.

Rosie (04:45 ):

That's really interesting. So is that something that would ever appeal to you to do a bit of that?

Hannah (04:50 ):

Yeah, absolutely. And I've done more and more of it now since I've been in private practice than I did before when I was working in the NHS and the state system. But it's not something that I feel incredibly confident at. I think that's something that I have to skill myself up with regards to working as a psychologist, and I think that's part and parcel of who we are often in our nature.

Rosie (05:19 ):

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I think when you were talking about what it was like to retrain as an ed psych, I was thinking about just over a year ago, maybe 18 months ago, I did a course in online therapy. It made me feel like I knew nothing about therapy.

Hannah (05:35 ):

When you do.

Rosie (05:36 ):

Something I'd been doing for a really long time. But as soon as I was in that learning environment again, back in the role of the student, I started questioning everything, started thinking I was completely incompetent, felt totally deskilled, until I got in the saddle and started seeing people online, and I was like, "Oh, here are all my skills and knowledge to help me." Excel