Join Malcolm and Simone Collins as they dive deep into the evolving relationship between the United States and Israel, challenging traditional Zionist perspectives with a pragmatic approach. In this thought-provoking discussion, Malcolm shares why he’s shifted from ardent Zionism to advocating for a strategic reevaluation of U.S. military aid to Israel. The conversation covers the political, economic, and cultural implications of cutting off aid, the influence of lobbying groups, and the potential for a new era of U.S.-Israel cooperation focused on AI and technological innovation.The episode also explores the dynamics within the American right, the rise of anti-cancellation sentiment, and the importance of aligning national interests for long-term stability. Plus, Malcolm and Simone touch on global topics like the future of energy, lunar mining, and the shifting landscape of international alliances.Whether you’re interested in geopolitics, U.S. foreign policy, or the future of technology and global power, this episode offers a nuanced perspective you won’t want to miss.Subscribe for more in-depth conversations and let us know your thoughts in the comments!

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00 ] Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. I have been thinking a lot about this over the past few days and one I changed my mind on a major issue, which is the best fast forward with Israel. Oh. ‘cause a lot of people know I have been pretty ardently Zionist in the past. And two,

Simone Collins: are you a Zionist or are you a pragmatist?

Malcolm Collins: I’m more of a pragmatist and I think that I’ll explain where I’ve changed my view on this. And I, I think that if this is correctly implemented, and the reason I’m gonna lay this out in the podcast is I’m gonna lay out every step in terms of doing this, how you would do it as a Republican administration right now.

And like, we’ll explain how we’ll. It basically destroy the modern Democratic party if Trump can execute on this, the

Simone Collins: path forward to own the Libs. Cut off Israel.

Malcolm Collins: Cut off Israel. Yes. So we’re going to go over how you can do this. How you can do this in a way that is [00:01:00 ] politically viable. How you can do this in a way that maintains a strong relationship with Israel, how you can do this in a way that strengthens our relationship, not just with Israel, but with the Middle East more broadly.

How you can do this in a way that Netanyahu has basically baited already. And I was unaware that Netanyahu has kept saying this and basically, so they

Simone Collins: blocked it anyway.

Malcolm Collins: The only reason why we are not aggressively moving towards this right now is apac who we need to just railroad. Although I will go over that.

APAC has shown a willingness to bend on stuff like this in the past if it’s laid out to them logically. Oh, and the, the thing that sort of brought this up for me, so I’ll go into where I started to go down this path was twofold. One was, I was talking with a fan in the Discord and they’re like, you’ve always said that the right should not maintain any issue.

Like this is a, that’s an [00:02:00 ] overlap of, of ideologies that we can’t actually win. Elections wins. Right. Or that’s really gonna impact our chances of winning elections.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: That’s

Simone Collins: 90 10 issues has been so smart, right? Like he’s

Malcolm Collins: very aware, but we get so much in terms of Jewish and APAC money, it can be useful.

Even in terms of if it’s not getting out the vote in terms of getting out the money, which helps get out the vote more. But the, there’s a few problems here. One is money has been mattering less and less in terms of election cycles historically. And two is what happened recently, which is recently one of the girls from the Red Scare Podcast were having Nick Fuentes, not even their own beliefs, but interviewing him on their podcast got like actually canceled.

And I was under the position that cancellation was over. Like they lost a major job contract, they lost their agency. And I was like, no. Like this. This is the type of thing that when it happens to someone in the right, the rest of the right needs to 100% get behind them. Tucker [00:03:00 ] Carlson has done some iffy things, but this is different.

This is like a more mainstream. Like, not like Venezuela dictator interviewing type. This is more like, and I think that that was cool that he did that, whatever, but I can understand where you can be like, oh, he’s a more out there figure on the right. These days. This is a more centrist figure on the right these days.

And two is Ben Shapiro has been basically spiraling like lemon grab since this event.

Speaker 6: Unacceptable. Unacceptable. Unacceptable.

Malcolm Collins: And I’m just like. The mainstream of the right, like it’s very obvious to me, the mainstream of the right is going to have to cut the Ben Shapiro faction completely off if we don’t want a full on civil war. Would you agree with that, by the way, Simone?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

If you’re like, well, why the Ben Shapiro faction and not the Nick Fuentes faction? The reason is twofold. One is you just have to be practical. Ben Shapiro’s [00:04:00 ] been dropping fall or is like flies recently, , like 20,000 on subs every month. He’s been losing people for the past, well, really since this blew up.

So, , it’s obvious that he’s losing in the public mind. But not just that, it’s also that he committed the cardinal sin of the modern, right? Which is attempting to ban people and make arguments based on pearl clutching rather than rational argument, we cannot allow that. That needs to be an absolute, if you do that, you are out, right?

That makes you a leftist. That is the argument that the leftists have been Retreating to, and if you normalize that style of argument, then the leftists automatically win because they always win in the game of, you hurt my Fifis, and that’s the game that Ben Shapiro’s been trying to play. You said something that falls outside of what I consider and what the dominant culture considers socially normal.

But the modern right is made up of people who oppose the [00:05:00 ] dominant culture that oppose the urban monoculture. So of course, we cannot allow the mean streaming of that form of argumentation.

I ran a sentiment analysis on X and 70 to 75% of the tweets that have gone out about Ben Shapiro recently have been extremely negative with only five to 10% being positive, and the five to 10% that are positive are pretty much exclusively from.

Boomers and neocons, which are factions that are dying out. If you do not want anti-Semitic sentiment to grow, we need to cut out the type of sentiment that Ben Shapiro represents.

Malcolm Collins: And so how do we navigate that without losing Israel, which is. Very important in terms of being a highly economically productive, highly technologically productive nation

That has a decent fertility rate. In fact, the only such country on Earth.

Malcolm Collins: that is, has a good reason to be allied with us going into the future. Right? How do we do that with zip? Right? While keeping them on board [00:06:00 ] basically completely cut them off.

And there is a way too that helps us in a ton of other areas as well. So to go forwards. Hmm. By the way, the larger problem, what are your thoughts on it? Do you actually believe that we do sort of like things are sort of coming to a head where the American right cannot maintain both of these ideologies?

Simone Collins: It does. Yeah. It, it seems like, especially Nick Fuentes trending so much, even in our comments, I see it, this, this really weird

Malcolm Collins: tension Well, is so coming off as the, the weest bad guy in all this. And that like we sort of need a mainstream play. And that’s the reason why we’re making this episode because a lot of policymakers watch our show or a number do at least.

And after we’ve spoken at the White House on this stuff and a lot of other influencers watch our show. And so if we can begin influencing a third way forwards in a way that has so many positive externalities for the party, let’s do it. Right.

Simone Collins: Yeah, because honestly the, the arguments that I mostly hear [00:07:00 ] against Israel all get grouped in by some people into like, oh, this just, you are trying to exterminate journals.

But like, some people are just like, Hey, why are we paying for this? Like some of the arguments are very, very, very reasonable. And, and Israel

Malcolm Collins: needs to make it so that these arguments are not reasonable. Yeah. And

Simone Collins: the way, yeah. Well, I mean, I think this is similar to your your AI argument where if, if you make it such that one group cannot exist.

Period. Then you know the other group is obligated to

Malcolm Collins: get, yeah. What she’s saying is, if you say, I will kill any human who is better than me through like augmentations, or I will kill any AI that’s better than me, then eventually you mandate those systems turning against you. And yeah,

Simone Collins: and right now the way the arguments seem to be going is like, well.

You know, if you question Israel at all, then you know, you, you are the enemy. Or if you support Israel at all then you are the enemy. And, and I, we need to [00:08