Behind the Mirror

In this episode of Behind The Mirror, Keith Posehn and Dafra Sanou dive into the real edge creators have in an AI-driven world: authenticity, trust, and human connection.From MrBeast to Jackie Aina to Becca Bloom, they break down why some creators build fanbases that no algorithm can replicate — and what that means for brands, marketers, and the future of discovery.If you run partnerships, work with creators, or build growth programs — this conversation will change the way you see the creator economy. Chapters00:00 – Welcome & intro to the episode01:05 – The idea of “AI-resistant” creators02:20 – Trust as the foundation of creator influence04:00 – Parasocial relationships and why they matter06:00 – Full-self authenticity: MrBeast, Jaden Animations & more09:40 – Jackie Aina: balancing privacy with trust12:00 – Influence without oversharing: the power of selective authenticity14:50 – Becca Bloom & engineered likability vs. genuine connection17:10 – What brands should really look for in creators19:25 – Creator discovery vs. AI discovery21:45 – The future of creator trust in an AI world22:30 – Closing thoughts & what’s nextZorz helps brands launch and scale referral, affiliate, and partnership programs that convert.👉 hello@zorz.com | zorz.comSubscribe to Behind The Mirror for weekly conversations on performance marketing, partnerships, and the future of growth.#BehindTheMirror #CreatorEconomy #Authenticity #AIMarketing #AffiliateMarketing #ReferralMarketing #InfluencerMarketing #Zorz #CreatorTrust #MarketingPodcast #BrandGrowth

In this episode of Behind the Mirror, host Keith Posehn sits down with longtime friend and industry veteran David Rodnitsky, founder of 3Q Digital, for a deep dive into how artificial intelligence is reshaping the marketing landscape.From the rise of zero-click search to the rapid evolution of LLMs like ChatGPT and Claude, Keith and David explore what these changes mean for marketers, agencies, and brands trying to stay relevant. They discuss the declining dominance of traditional SEO, how consumer behavior is shifting toward AI-driven answers, and why content still matters more than ever - even if the way it’s consumed is changing.Other key topics include:• How AI is disrupting Google’s business model and ad revenue• The tension between AI-dominated, AI-native, and AI-resistant industries• Where the biggest opportunities lie for performance marketers• Why adaptability and strategy will be the most valuable skills in the AI eraWhether you’re a CMO, agency owner, or growth marketer, this conversation offers crucial insights into how to pivot, innovate, and lead in a world where AI is rewriting the rules of digital marketing.Tune in to learn how to future-proof your marketing strategy before the next big shift hits.

Affiliate marketing is often dismissed as a bottom-of-funnel, last-click channel, but that perspective sells it short. In this episode, host Keith Posehn is joined by Ashley Whetung, Senior Consultant at Zorz, and co-host Liem Vuong to explore how affiliate and partnership programs can play a much larger role in demand creation, trust building, and brand growth.From mass media publishers to creators and influencers, the discussion dives into how partnerships fuel discovery, drive efficiency, and deliver long-term ROI. Ashley breaks down how brands can test, iterate, and scale smarter—turning affiliate from a transactional channel into a strategic growth engine.If you’re rethinking how affiliate and creator partnerships fit into your marketing mix, this episode will change the way you see the funnel.Chapterization00:00 – Introduction – Keith welcomes Ashley Whetung and Liem Vuong00:30 – Affiliate Misconceptions – Why brands see affiliate as bottom-of-funnel01:55 – Beyond Demand Capture – Affiliate as awareness & trust-building channel04:00 – Expanding the Affiliate Spectrum – Mass media, creators, and hybrid models06:10 – ROI & Up-Funnel Testing – ROAS, CAC, and opportunities beyond last-click08:30 – Efficiency & Cash Flow – Performance-based payouts and ad spend efficiency10:25 – Macro Environment Impact – Economic pressures shaping brand strategy12:40 – Influencer Evolution – Hybrid creator models and long-term value14:40 – Authenticity & Trust – Building lasting relationships through creators16:20 – Case Studies – NordVPN, Skillshare, and other breakout examples17:20 – Testing & Iteration – Building your affiliate/creator “muscle”20:20 – Scaling Strategically – From first campaigns to repeatable growth22:25 – Borrowing Trust – Startups leveraging partners for credibility23:30 – Closing & Key Takeaways – Lessons on persistence, strategy, and long-term impact

In this episode of Behind the Mirror, hosts Keith Posehn and Liem Vong sit down with Dafra Sanou, Growth & Digital Marketing expert, to explore how AI is transforming affiliate and partner marketing.Together, they unpack how brands can leverage partnerships in an AI-driven world, why governance and context matter more than ever, and which parts of the recruitment and program management process are most ripe for disruption.From inclusivity in influencer marketing to the rise of LLMs shaping how products are discovered, this conversation is packed with insights for marketers navigating a rapidly shifting landscape.

The CRM landscape is changing fast. For years, Salesforce dominated. But in today’s market, HubSpot is closing the gap at an unprecedented pace - rolling out enterprise-grade features, innovating faster, and challenging the old guard.In this episode of Behind the Mirror, Keith Posehn and Liem Vuong sit down with Eric Potter, COO of OpMethods, to unpack what’s really happening in the CRM space. From the slowdown of Salesforce’s innovation, to HubSpot’s aggressive push forward, to the rise of new AI-native players like Notion and Airtable, this conversation breaks down where the opportunities lie - and the pitfalls leaders need to avoid.If you’re a CRO, RevOps leader, or founder making decisions about your company’s sales and marketing stack, this episode is your roadmap to the evolving CRM market and how to choose the right tools for what’s coming next.

In this episode of Behind the Mirror, Keith Posehn and Ashley Parducci delve into the complexities of attribution in marketing. They discuss the evolution of attribution methodologies, the challenges of measuring consumer journeys, and the importance of understanding technology's role in these processes. The conversation highlights the significance of video marketing, the concept of measurement debt, and the necessity for marketers to remain open-minded and willing to take risks. Through shared experiences and insights, they provide valuable recommendations for setting up successful attribution strategies and understanding the interconnectedness of various marketing channels.#MarketingStrategy #PerformanceMarketing #ConsumerJourney #Attribution #DataDriven #Zorz #BehindTheMirror

Is Your Affiliate Program Stuck? Here's How to Break ThroughIn this episode, Keith Posehn sits down with Liem Vuong to talk about the silent killer of affiliate growth: stagnancy. They explore why playing it safe can actually be the riskiest move in today's landscape and what to do about it. From battling organizational inertia to setting bold goals and testing your way forward, this conversation is packed with real talk and practical strategies. Whether you're leading a program or advising one, you'll walk away with a fresh perspective on how to grow, adapt, and scale in affiliate marketing.

In this episode, Keith Posehn and the team at Zorz discuss the complexities of budgeting in marketing, particularly focusing on affiliate marketing. They explore how affiliate budgets differ from traditional marketing budgets, the importance of trust in partnerships, and the challenges of marketing mix modeling. The conversation also delves into the intricacies of media spend and its impact on affiliate performance, emphasizing the need for a strategic approach to maximize ROI.

This week, the Zorz team dives into a big question: how do we expand our idea of what affiliate marketing can be? In this episode, Keith Posehn, Dafra Sanou, and Liem Vuong challenge the standard view of affiliate programs as coupon-driven or loyalty-heavy. They explore how innovative affiliates can build trust and relevance, open up mass media opportunities, and help brands show up in unexpected, high-impact ways.You’ll hear:• Why the right partner can help you reach audiences you never thought possible• How relevance and trust fuel each other — and how affiliate programs can tap into both• Why it's time to look beyond last-click and rethink what value really means• How a well-structured program can elevate your brand across non-traditional channelsWhether you're building out your first program or fine-tuning a mature one, this episode is a reminder: partnerships are more than just performance - they're about perception, too.

In this episode of Behind the Mirror, Keith Posehn, Dafra Sanou and Liem Vuong tackle a question that just won’t quit: Is affiliate marketing scammy? They dig into the roots of this perception, drawing on years of experience leading high-performing programs at companies like Uber, navigating fraud, and dealing with misaligned incentives.You’ll hear personal horror stories (think 4am CEO calls and clawed-back commissions), explore what actually makes a program vulnerable, and learn why the structure and values of your affiliate strategy matter more than ever.Whether you’re a CMO skeptical of the channel, or a marketer looking to strengthen your program, this episode pulls back the curtain with real talk and practical insight.

In this episode of Behind the Mirror, Keith Posehn, Dafra Sanou, and Liem Vuong explore why trust isn’t just a marketing buzzword - it’s the foundation of long-term brand growth. They unpack how brands can reinvent themselves by leveraging credibility through partnerships and influencer collaborations, the role of incrementality in reaching new markets, and why authentic advocacy outperforms traditional tactics. Whether you’re navigating brand repositioning or scaling partner programs, this conversation offers clear insights on how trust drives performance, loyalty, and lasting impact.

Keith Posehn, Dafra Sanou, and Liem Vuong pull back the curtain on what it really takes to scale an affiliate or referral program. From managing risk and fraud to structuring incentives that actually work, they share battle-tested insights, including what went down during Uber’s infamous “Penguin Gate.” Tune in for lessons on trust, alignment, and the fine line between growth and chaos.

In this episode, we’re talking how to craft the right incentives for your partners to create growth. The structure you set can either drive real performance or quietly drag down your program.We get into how tiered bonuses can unlock more revenue, when to lower commissions, and what it takes to shift partners from passive to proactive. Sometimes a small change in how you reward partners can turn uninvolved, low-value affiliates into high-value partners vested in your brand mission & strategy.Hosted by Keith Posehn, Dafra Sanou, and Liem Vuong

In this episode, we dive into the complex world of marketing attribution and why it's time to move beyond outdated models like last-click. We unpack the limitations of multi-touch attribution and what it actually means to measure value in today’s performance-driven landscape.We also explore how brands can rethink how they reward partners - shifting from what's easiest to track to what truly drives impact. From integrating offline efforts and emerging partnerships, to reworking internal mindsets around affiliate marketing, we talk through what it takes to stay relevant and responsive in a fast-changing space.And because we believe in walking our talk, we share a bit about the evolution of this podcast - where it's headed, and what you can expect in future episodes.Thanks for tuning in!