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© Devon O'Rourke
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Embracing Erosion is the podcast that lets you inside the heads of product marketers, investors, and go-to-market leaders who tackle changes head-on and turn them into competitive advantages.
64 Episodes
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On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down with Ryan Walker. Ryan is a global marketing, product, and growth executive with over 15 years of experience scaling iconic B2B and B2C platforms—from Meta and TikTok to Reddit and now Boeing.In their conversation, they discussed aligning teams at scale, preparing for IPOs, navigating regulatory pressure, why alignment, velocity and transparent are key to transformation, and what PMMs need to unlearn to lead in the next decade. Enjoy the conversation!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down with Suyog Deshpande, the Co-Founder and CEO of Webless. Before starting this company, Suyog spent years at some of the most respected names in enterprise tech - Amplitude, Salesforce, and Samsara - helping shape products and go-to-market strategies at scale as a product marketing leader.In their conversation, they explored what an LLM-native web might actually look like in practice—how companies should think about becoming “LLM-ready,” what metrics will matter in a world beyond pageviews and clicks, and how safety and trust need to be built into agent-driven experiences. Suyog also shared lessons from his time in “big tech” that inform how he’s approaching this transformation, and we talked about the roadblocks and signals that will determine whether this shift takes hold. Enjoy the conversation!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down with Rebecca Shaddix. Rebecca is a seasoned product marketing leader with experience at companies like Garner Health, 15Five, and GoGuardian.They discuss reclaiming time, leading through scale, and how funding models shape go-to-market. Rebecca also shared lessons from high-trust industries, nonprofit leadership, and what to do when you feel off-track - despite doing everything “right". Enjoy the conversation!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down with marketing executive and AI advisor, Liza Adams. Liza has held senior marketing leadership roles at major companies like Smartsheet, Juniper Networks, and Pure Storage, and now helps organizations accelerate growth through applied AI strategies at GrowthPath Partners.They discuss all things AI including, what marketing leaders are missing today, the future of the org chart, what tomorrows roles might look like, tactical tips on how to elevate your role using AI., and much more. Enjoy the conversation!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down with Erica Yamamoto, Head of Marketing at Outschool.They discuss the challenges of building and marketing two-sided marketplaces, constructing teams through scale and uncertainty, and how her team is starting to use generative AI. Erica also reflects on the shifting landscape of education, how families are rethinking traditional schooling, why that makes Outschool’s mission more relevant than ever, and much more. Enjoy the conversation!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down with Jeff Hardison, CRO of CaseMark and former VP of Product Marketing at Calendly.They discuss the complexities behind operating a hybrid go-to-market motion, the positioning and messaging LinkedIn industrial complex, the nuances of product marketing and leadership in startups vs enterprise organizations, and they even touch on GTM engineering. Enjoy the conversation!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down with Rahim Kaba, the VP Analyst at Gartner, focused on the product marketing discipline.Together, they dive deep into the current high priority areas for product marketing organizations, common mistakes that are being made, how the function differs from early stage to enterprise, the emergence of Centers of Excellence, and the future outlook of the discipline. Enjoy the conversation!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down with Karen Budell, CMO of Totango, an enterprise leader in customer success software. Karen was also named one of Pavilion’s “50 CMOs to Watch.”Together, they dive deep into two critical topics: how to build a brand that scales, and what it really takes to integrate companies during mergers or acquisitions—culturally, operationally, and strategically. The episode wraps with sharp advice for product marketing leaders aspiring to move into the CMO seat. Enjoy the conversation!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Jason Smith, the visionary CEO and Co-Founder of Klue. They discuss building bootstrapped businesses vs VC-backed, the risks associated with starting a company, why hiring is a make-it-or-break-it, the downside of corporate decision-making processes, the pros and cons of building in Canada vs the U.S., how often the company vision should evolve, and implementing a community-led growth model, and much more. Enjoy!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down with Julia Szatar, the Head of Marketing at Tavus, a fast-growing generative AI company redefining what’s possible with personalized video at scale. They discuss Julia’s experience with Loom during their hyper-growth period post-COVID, what lessons she has taken away from that experience, how she balances priorities and planning in her role at Tavus (whose core products are large language models), advice for product marketing leaders looking to make the jump to CMO, and much more. Enjoy the conversation!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon was joined once again by Ryan Sorley. Ryan is the VP of Win-Loss and Co-founder at Klue, having sold his research firm, DoubleCheck Research to Klue a few years back. With a career rooted in research and strategy, Ryan has worked with hundreds of B2B tech companies to help them understand why they win and lose deals. He’s held roles at leading firms like Forrester and Gartner and recently authored Blindspots: The Ultimate Guide to Building a Better Win-Loss Program, a practical playbook for companies looking to turn buyer feedback into competitive advantage. They go deep on all things win-loss, and we get Ryan’s tactical advice on how to set up a win-loss program and how to make it more impactful with the right soft skills. Enjoy!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down with Max Shaw, Co-Founder of Windmill, an AI company focused on helping people managers be more effective. Prior to founding Windmill, Max worked at Yext for over a decade, departing as the SVP of Product Management, where he oversaw Product Management, Product Marketing, and UX teams. They disscuss Max's journey from early software projects to his long tenure at Yext and co-founding Windmill, exploring his perspectives on product management, the evolving role of product marketing, the transition from enterprise to startup, and insights into how AI, especially through Windmill, is reshaping workplace management and the skills needed for future professionals. Enjoy the conversation!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down with Gary Arnold, a seasoned go-to-market leader with a unique blend of experience across sales, product, and product marketing. Gary built and led the global product marketing function at PayPal and GoDaddy, and has served in sales leadership roles at Amazon and CardTapp, where he was the Chief Revenue Officer. They dive into marketecture building, how to measure platform success (vs revenue-based, siloed product KPIs), how he scaled a nascent product marketing function at PayPal to a team of 25, how AI is impacting every company's GTM motion including the decline of SEO and the rise of Generative Engine Optimization (or GEO), and much more. Enjoy the conversation!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down with Cody Bender, Chief Product Officer at Boardable, to explore how his diverse experience across multiple industries has equipped him to innovate in the nonprofit tech space. They dive into the unique challenges and opportunities of building products for nonprofit boards, the evolving landscape of nonprofit operations, and how unbundling a core product can drive growth. Cody also shares insights on harnessing voice of customer data effectively, the future of innovation in nonprofits, and much more. Enjoy the conversation!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Layne Cox, the CMO of Union and multi-time unicorn company marketing leader (Slice, Ibotta, Grubhub). They discuss why point-of-sale (POS) is dead, how Union can help restaurants and bars provide exceptional experiences for their guests, break down the business model and analyze how to create a marketplace flywheel, define how to become a stronger leader, and much more. Enjoy!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Fluvio Principals, Shari Diamond and Tom Crist. Given their roles overseeing strategy with a handful of clients each quarter (companies like Amplitude, Worldpay, eBay, OpenX, and many others) these two are perfectly situated to give us the low down on what c-suite execs are looking for out of their product marketing teams and to break down trends they see in market.
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Alex Pattis, the General Partner of Riverside Ventures and founding team member of Hampton. They discuss how to scale a company from concept to 9-figure exit, how to break away from the traditional consulting model and apply product approaches, why it’s important to iterate quickly and often with messaging, the pros and cons of Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) investing vs the traditional VC fund model, what signals are important to pay attention to when investing in startups, and much more. Enjoy!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with friend of the pod and Ignition CEO, Derek Osgood. They discuss the launch of Ignition 2.0, updates to their GTM strategy, and the state of B2B software. Enjoy!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Amanda Groves, the VP of Product Marketing at Enable and one of Sharebird’s Top 100 Product Marketing Leaders in 2022 and 2023. They break down the recent McKinsey report on product marketing and the latest data from the Product Marketing Alliance and discuss the tools the best product marketing teams need, how PMMs can and should use AI, how to become inspired and manage stress, and much more. Enjoy!
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with seasoned tech CPO and GM, Scott Gaines. They discuss the importance of empathy when implementing big changes, why it’s often better to simplify and reduce product offerings in order to realize larger opportunities, the magic of combining industry veterans with fresh, ambitious outsiders during GTM processes, how to develop resiliency as an individual and as a leader, and so much more. Enjoy!
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