The Message-Market Fit Podcast

We explore the challenges product marketers face in gaining buy-in from executive teams and how to overcome them. Gab provides insights on aligning sales and marketing teams, crafting effective messaging strategies, and the importance of market segmentation for startups.Gab also discusses his approach to podcasting, including how to differentiate in a crowded space and create meaningful conversations with guests. We touch on the concept of "message market fit" and why it's crucial for startups to focus on this before product market fit.Whether you're a product marketer looking to elevate your role, a founder aiming to refine your messaging strategy, or simply interested in the evolving landscape of B2B marketing, this episode offers valuable insights and actionable advice.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH GABGab on LinkedInWe're Not Marketers podcastSHOW NOTES02:23 Gab's Journey into Product Marketing04:09 Why Product Marketers Are Not Marketers08:14 Qualities of a Great Product Marketer10:54 Aligning Sales and Marketing Teams18:33 Defining Message Market Fit24:12 Challenges in B2B Marketing Jargon32:18 The Role of Podcasting in B2B Marketing37:14 The Importance of Market Segmentation for Startups42:25 Gab's Go-to-Market Audit Process47:21 Learning Resources for B2B Marketers Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

We explore the importance of operationalizing customer research across teams, the pitfalls of misinterpreting customer data, and how to effectively leverage customer insights for sustainable growth. Gia also discusses the challenges companies face in understanding their ideal customers and the dangers of investing in growth without a solid foundation of customer knowledge.As an advocate for responsible AI use in marketing and research, Gia offers her perspective on the potential benefits and risks of AI in customer analysis. She emphasizes the irreplaceable value of human insight in understanding customer motivations and needs.Whether you're a SaaS founder, marketer, or product manager, this episode offers valuable insights on how to truly understand your customers and build a growth strategy that aligns with their needs and your business goals.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH GIAGia on LinkedInForget the Funnel's websiteForget the Funnel bookSHOW NOTES02:01 Gia's Journey: From Digital Marketing to Customer-Led Growth04:18 Why Companies Should Move Beyond the Traditional Funnel09:08 The Importance of Operationalizing Customer Research13:51 Identifying and Prioritizing Ideal Customers21:28 Creating a Customer Experience Map27:46 From Experience Map to Messaging Strategy32:17 Prioritizing Jobs to Be Done43:38 Responsible Use of AI in Customer Research47:13 Continuous Learning in the AI Era Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

We explore Carolyn's approach to creating hybrid one-reader messaging for multiple audiences, the importance of Jobs to Be Done research in copywriting, and strategies for effective B2B messaging and testing. Carolyn also discusses her thoughts on using AI in copywriting and the value of human creativity in the process.Whether you're a copywriter, marketer, or founder looking to improve your messaging, this episode offers valuable insights into the art and science of conversion copywriting.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH CAROLYNCarolyn on LinkedInBoxcar Agency websiteSHOW NOTES02:12 Carolyn's journey from classical musician to copywriter05:55 Lessons learned from Copyhackers and balancing data with intuition09:04 Boxcar Agency's focus and value proposition11:55 Creating hybrid one-reader messaging for multiple audiences19:24 The importance of Jobs to Be Done research in copywriting24:42 Effective interview techniques for customer research30:34 Testing methodologies for B2B messaging36:49 Buyer modalities and decision-maker styles in copywriting41:03 Common challenges in messaging and copy for clients42:57 Using AI in copywriting and its limitations Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Throughout our conversation, Sahil emphasizes the importance of data-driven decision-making in marketing and provides practical tips for implementing A/B tests that drive real results. He shares three key strategies that consistently perform well in B2B SaaS:1. Showcasing product visuals on websites2. Using bold, quantitative headlines3. Creating easily skimmable contentWe also discuss the nuances of crafting effective calls-to-action, balancing visual elements like product screenshots and videos, and the "Hook, Mirror, Ladder" framework for optimizing landing pages.Sahil offers insights on:- The importance of credibility in quantitative claims- Balancing skimmability with in-depth content for different audience segments- The role of AI in A/B testing and copywriting- Best practices for CTAs and landing page optimizationWhether you're a SaaS marketer, growth specialist, or founder, this episode is packed with actionable advice to help you improve your conversion rates and drive business growth.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH SAHILSahil on LinkedInSpiralyze websiteSHOW NOTES01:50 Sahil's Journey to Spiralize03:48 Understanding A/B Testing07:10 Effective A/B Testing Strategies for B2B SaaS07:48 The Power of Visuals in Conversion11:12 The Role of Bold Claims and Quantitative Headlines14:26 Importance of Skimmable Content16:41 Interactive Demos vs. Videos24:08 Optimizing Your Homepage for High Intent Audiences24:30 The Power of Static Images Over Videos25:07 Effective Use of Videos Below the Fold26:53 Choosing the Right Data Points for Headlines32:06 Balancing Skimmability and Depth in B2B Copywriting35:07 The Hook, Mirror, Ladder Framework for Landing Pages41:27 AI in A/B Testing and Copywriting43:29 Conclusion and Where to Find More Content Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

We explore Yuval's transition from graphic design to UX writing, discussing how his sales background informs his approach to UX and the importance of delivering value before making a sale. Yuval shares his perspectives on the critical role of UX writing in reducing churn, increasing retention, and ultimately driving revenue for businesses.As the founder of UX Writing Hub, Yuval discusses the challenges of creating consistent copy across different touchpoints and the innovative ways his team is leveraging AI to maintain brand voice across large organizations. We also delve into the future of UX writing, exploring how AI and emerging technologies are shaping the field.Whether you're a UX writer, content designer, or simply interested in the intersection of design and communication, this episode offers valuable insights and actionable advice to help you elevate your UX writing game.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH YUVALYuval on LinkedInUX Writing Hub websiteWriters in Tech podcastSHOW NOTES01:50 Yuval's journey from graphic design to UX writing05:56 The value of sales experience in UX writing09:07 UX Writing Hub: Training and agency services15:16 Linking UX writing to revenue and conversions20:24 Balancing persuasion and usability in product copy28:58 Creating consistent copy across touchpoints31:52 Using AI to maintain content style guides37:52 Exploring AI agents for UX writing processes41:59 The future of UX writing with AI and voice interfaces47:17 Upcoming projects and where to find Yuval Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

We explore Michele's transition from B2C to B2B marketing, discussing the similarities and differences in strategies and the crucial role of creativity and emotional connection in both domains. Michele shares his insights on effectively positioning against competitors as an enterprise SaaS company and the significance of simplifying messaging to resonate with target audiences.As a mentor at Growth Mentor, Michele discusses what makes a great mentor-mentee relationship and the value of giving back to the marketing community. We also delve into his approach to skill-based hiring for marketing roles and the key attributes she looks for in candidates.Finally, we touch upon the exciting world of generative AI and its potential impact on marketing. Michele shares his thoughts on embracing change and leveraging AI to enhance creativity and efficiency in marketing processes.Whether you're a seasoned B2B marketer, a startup founder, or simply passionate about the future of marketing, this episode offers valuable insights and actionable takeaways to help you navigate the ever-evolving landscape of B2B SaaS marketing.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH MICHELEMichele on LinkedinYunoJuno's websiteSHOW NOTES02:29 Career Journey: From Media to Marketing06:55 Transitioning from B2C to B2B Marketing15:00 Effective Sales and Marketing Collaboration19:14 Positioning and Messaging Strategies27:34 Challenges and Solutions in Enterprise Marketing32:17 Hiring for Marketing Teams36:27 Future Trends in B2B SaaS Marketing Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

We dive into the importance of product positioning, finding the right language for your target audience, and creating email campaigns that engage users and drive product adoption. Jane also shares her thoughts on leveraging behavioral data for personalization and finding the balance between automation and human touch.As the host of two popular podcasts, UI Breakfast and Better Done Than Perfect, Jane discusses how these shows have helped her build relationships and gain industry insights. Finally, we explore how Jane balances her family, passions and hobbies with the demands of running a SaaS company and being a mom.Whether you're a SaaS founder, marketer, or email enthusiast, this episode is packed with actionable advice to help you elevate your email marketing game.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH JANEJane on LinkedInUserlist's websiteUI Breakfast podcastBetter Done Than Perfect podcastSHOW NOTES01:44 Jane's Journey: From Creative Director to SaaS Founder03:51 Building Userlist: Challenges and Learnings06:46 The Importance of Positioning and Messaging21:28 Effective Email Marketing Strategies for SaaS26:03 Effective Pricing Models and Visual Guides26:46 Behavior-Based vs. Time-Based Emails27:46 Tailoring Messaging for Different Personas29:50 Challenges in Consistent Messaging31:08 Overcoming Email Marketing Obstacles32:18 The Role of Podcasting in Marketing36:46 Researching and Preparing for Podcast Guests43:54 Balancing Personal Interests with Professional Life45:54 Conclusion and Where to Find More Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Throughout our conversation, Josh emphasizes the importance of deep customer research and how it can be a game-changer in crafting copy that resonates with your target audience. He discusses his approach to helping clients uncover their unique differentiators and lean into them to create a strong category story.Josh also shares his thoughts on the evolution of SaaS copywriting, from the early days of focusing on product features to the current landscape where companies need to go beyond the "why us" story and create a compelling narrative that sets them apart from competitors.We explore the challenges of message testing in B2B and how Josh approaches this crucial aspect of copywriting. He also shares his perspective on the impact of AI on the industry, highlighting the importance of human intuition and the ability to extract insights from messy qualitative data.Whether you're a SaaS marketer, copywriter, or founder, this episode is packed with valuable insights and actionable advice to help you elevate your copywriting game and stand out in a crowded market.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH JOSHJosh on LinkedInSway Copy's websiteCategory Story newsletterSHOW NOTES02:12 Josh's Journey into Copywriting02:27 The Early Days and Breakthroughs in Copywriting04:35 Choosing a Niche and the Rise of SaaS Copywriting05:56 Lessons Learned and Advice for New Copywriters09:59 The Importance of Niching Down in Copywriting11:22 Key Business Lessons from Years of Experience15:14 The Power of Customer Research in Copywriting20:25 Effective Strategies for Engaging with Customers25:17 Unlocking Customer Feedback: The Hidden Value of Copywriting25:46 Decoding the Category Story in SaaS Evolution27:50 Crafting a Distinct Category Story in a Crowded Market30:00 Finding Your Unique Category Story: A Strategy for Differentiation34:02 Message Testing in B2B: Challenges and Strategies37:17 Navigating AI in Copywriting: Insights and Concerns42:29 Learning and Life Lessons: From Client Work to Personal Growth Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Throughout our conversation, Adam emphasizes the importance of having a unique angle and differentiating your messaging in saturated markets. He discusses the crucial role of intimately understanding your buyer persona and how it can be a significant competitive advantage in crafting compelling campaigns.Adam also explores the value of working with skilled conversion copywriters, who can elevate your marketing efforts and drive growth. He shares his thoughts on the impact of AI on marketing, stating that only bad marketing is at risk, and highlights the importance of asking questions and being curious as a marketer.Additionally, Adam dives into the key areas companies should focus on before implementing growth tactics, including aligning on target personas, product positioning, and growth models. He also shares his hiring philosophy, emphasizing the importance of curiosity, creativity, and a strong grasp of metrics when building a marketing team.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH ADAMAdam on LinkedInGrowth Union's websiteSHOW NOTES02:15 The Art of Differentiation and Understanding Your Buyer04:07 The Power of Conversion Copywriting and Team Collaboration08:33 Leveraging AI in Marketing: Opportunities and Limitations13:50 Strategic Alignment: Positioning, Messaging, and Growth19:17 Collaboration and Conflict Resolution in Marketing20:59 The Pitfalls of Premature Scaling and the Importance of Foundations23:38 Decoding Marketing Attribution for Early Stage Companies24:31 The Pitfalls of Overengineering Marketing Attribution25:05 Embracing 'Close Enough' in Marketing Strategies27:58 Navigating the Challenges of Marketing Research and Buy-In30:21 The Power of Creativity Over Pure Data in Marketing32:49 Hiring for Marketing Success: Data vs. Creativity33:47 Unlocking Growth with Effective Hiring Strategies38:38 Choosing the Right Agency or Freelancer for Your Marketing Needs40:35 Innovating Growth Strategies with Growth Union44:31 Overcoming Operational Challenges in Agency Scaling46:20 Final Thoughts on Communication and Growth Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Throughout our conversation, Jonathan emphasizes the importance of in-depth customer research, explaining how it enables marketers to develop messaging that resonates with their target audience. He discusses the differences between B2B and B2C marketing, highlighting the need for a thorough understanding of customer pain points, goals, and decision-making processes in the B2B space.Jonathan also digs into the role of company culture in shaping customer interactions, sharing how Happeo redefined its core values to prioritize exceeding customer expectations. He offers practical advice on crafting concrete company values that guide decision-making and align with the organization's goals.Additionally, Jonathan shares his favorite testing methods, including preference tests and A/B tests, to optimize messaging and improve conversion rates. He also discusses the importance of balancing quantitative and qualitative data to gain a comprehensive understanding of customers.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH JONATHANJonathan on LinkedInHappeo's websiteSHOW NOTES02:40 Jonathan's Journey: Lessons Learned and Career Evolution16:28 The Power of Company Culture in Customer Communication22:10 Repositioning Strategy: Navigating B2B Messaging26:04 Deep Dive into Target Market Segmentation26:45 Adjusting Strategy for Market Fit28:09 The Power of Research in Marketing31:46 Leveraging Internal Tools for External Success34:22 Balancing Quantitative and Qualitative Data38:23 Innovative Customer Uses of Appio39:38 Authenticity in Digital Communication43:24 Personal Insights: Learning from Twins Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Throughout our conversation, Brendan emphasizes the importance of staying close to customers, sharing practical tips for marketers to engage with their audience and uncover valuable insights. He discusses the power of frameworks like "hook, story, offer" in creating compelling content and the significance of understanding how customers think, not just what they say.Brendan also explores the role of AI in modern marketing, showcasing how tools like generative AI can help marketers draft content, extract insights from customer interviews, and streamline their workflows. However, he cautions against over-reliance on any single tool, stressing the importance of human creativity and judgment in the marketing process.Get ready to learn from a master marketer who has honed his skills across multiple disciplines and is passionate about helping others achieve their marketing goals!CONNECT WITH BRENDANBrendan on LinkedInGrowth Sprints' websiteSHOW NOTES02:33 The Art of Education in Marketing08:39 Embracing Challenges and Building for Yourself09:14 Navigating Imposter Syndrome and Self-Perception11:40 Finding Purpose in Work and Life14:14 Transitioning to Tactical SEO Insights16:06 The Power of Hook, Story, Offer in Content19:36 Crafting Engaging Content on LinkedIn26:26 Unlocking the Power of Visual Content27:03 The Importance of Reach vs. Resonance in Content27:27 Innovative Demand Generation Strategies27:45 Creating Content IP and Naming Solutions30:27 The Challenge of Checkbox Marketing37:28 Deep Customer Insights and the Role of AI46:14 Navigating the Future of Marketing and Personal Challenges Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Throughout our conversation, Andreea emphasizes the importance of understanding the human element in marketing, even in the face of data-driven decision-making. She shares her strategies for fostering a transparent and communicative company culture, enabling cross-functional collaboration, and leveraging customer insights to inform messaging and content creation.Andreea also goes into her data-driven approach to marketing, discussing how she uses analytics to identify opportunities, optimize campaigns, and measure success. She highlights the significance of testing and iteration in refining messaging and the role of AI in augmenting marketing efforts while maintaining the essential human touch.Get ready to be inspired! Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Throughout our conversation, Nizam emphasizes the importance of deep customer understanding and empathy. He shares his insights on conducting effective research, building buyer personas, and leveraging tools like the Value Proposition Canvas to align product offerings with customer desires.Nizam also sheds light on his strategic approach to messaging, advocating for value-driven communication that resonates with the target audience. He discusses the role of AI in augmenting product marketing efforts, highlighting the importance of using tools like ChatGPT responsibly and ethically.Whether you're a product marketing professional, a content creator, or simply interested in understanding how to effectively communicate the value of your product, this episode is packed with actionable insights and practical advice.CONNECT WITH NIZAMNizam on LinkedinOcelot's websiteSHOW NOTES02:16 The Evolution of a Marketer: Nizam's Career Path04:58 Adapting Titles for Audience Trust: A Marketer's Strategy07:17 Content vs. Copy: Understanding the Distinction09:48 Bridging Product Marketing and Content Creation14:59 The Role of External Copywriters in Marketing Strategy18:51 Achieving Message Market Fit: A Comprehensive Guide24:18 Exploring Buyer and User Personas in Marketing25:17 The Art of Collecting Valuable Customer Insights27:24 Leveraging Internal Teams for Richer Customer Understanding28:30 Navigating Research Budgets and Strategies31:22 Embracing AI for Enhanced Product Marketing37:34 Continuous Learning and Improvement in Product Marketing41:57 The Power of Introversion in Product Marketing45:10 Connecting and Growing in Product Marketing Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

Throughout the conversation, Matt shares his insights on the importance of deeply understanding your target audience, going beyond surface-level interactions to uncover their true needs, desires, and pain points. He emphasizes the power of empathy and authenticity in building lasting relationships with customers, particularly in industries where trust and personal connection are critical.From crafting non-linear marketing campaigns that break through the noise to leveraging AI tools like ChatGPT for efficient content creation, Matt offers a glimpse into his innovative approach to marketing. He also touches on the significance of cross-functional alignment within an organization and the need to meet customers where they are in their technology adoption journey. Whether you're a seasoned marketer or just starting out, this episode is packed with valuable lessons and actionable takeaways that will help you build stronger connections with your audience and boost your marketing efforts.Please enjoy!CONNECT WITH MATTMatt on LinkedInServiceCore's websiteSHOW NOTES01:21 Deep Dive with Matt: Marketing in Blue-Collar Industries04:16 Matt's Marketing Philosophy: From Curiosity to Strategy07:42 Service Corps: Revolutionizing Portable Sanitation with SaaS11:25 Building a Marketing Foundation at Service Corps13:50 Customer-Centric Marketing: Inside Out Approach19:29 Creative Strategies for Overcoming Software Skepticism22:08 Harnessing Facebook Groups for Industry Insights22:24 Exploring Non-Linear Marketing Strategies23:12 Leveraging Viral Moments for Brand Engagement24:32 The Power of Authenticity in Marketing28:25 Innovating with SEO and Messaging for Market Fit30:05 Utilizing AI for Content Creation and Strategy32:54 Adapting Messaging for Different Market Segments35:28 Ensuring Cross-Departmental Alignment in Strategy37:15 Achieving Message Market Fit: A Dynamic Process39:36 Personal Insights: Patience and Consistency in Growth42:15 Closing Thoughts and Where to Find Us Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy

In this episode, Foti shares his journey of validating the idea for GrowthMentor through real conversations instead of just consuming content, how he ensures quality by interviewing every mentor, the power of reciprocity in convincing experts to offer their time for free, categorizing user research to inform FAQs and messaging, and how genuine giving creates a environment for authentic relationships.Foti also dives into using friction as a filter, the importance of founder intuition, his counterintuitive launch strategy, and a unique “heavy metal” productivity hack. Whether you’re a founder, marketer, or just looking for mentorship, this episode is brimming with insights on entrepreneurship, growth, and the rewards of building a business centered on giving.Please enjoy!CONNECT WITH FOTIFoti on LinkedInGrowth Mentor’s websiteGet a copywriting mentoring session with me 😉SHOW NOTES02:03 The Genesis of Growth Mentor: A Unique Solution for Marketers06:07 Foti’s Journey: From Finance to Growth Marketing07:46 Understanding Growth Mentor’s Core Mission10:59 Building Relationships and Learning from Conversations15:30 The Power of Reciprocity and Mentorship24:20 Adding Friction for Better Engagement25:10 Harnessing Friction in Onboarding for Better Customer Experience25:44 The Power of Personalized Onboarding Questions26:25 Setting Expectations and Utilizing Microcopy27:16 Leveraging FAQs and User Feedback for Improvement31:10 Incorporating AI for Enhanced Product Features32:33 Building a Community: The Friend Factory Concept35:11 Learning from Mentor Experiences and Product Launch Insights39:25 Navigating Messaging Challenges with Diverse Audiences42:59 Productivity Hacks and Closing Thoughts Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy