The foundation of this episode rests on a critical distinction that most marketers blur together: **voice versus tone**. Kyle explains that voice is your written personality—it stays consistent across all channels and contexts. Tone, by contrast, is how you inflect that personality based on the situation. Think James Bond: he's always Bond, but his tone shifts when he's with a love interest versus facing a villain. For B2B teams, this means your brand voice should be recognizable everywhere—email, website, social, support—but the tone can adapt to urgency, celebration, education, or crisis. The practical implication? Don't let different team members rewrite your voice. Align on the character first, then let tone flex.Kyle didn't learn to write in Ryan Serhant's voice through copywriting school or brand guidelines. He learned through **listening**—watching Million Dollar Listing, reading his book, listening to his podcast, working alongside him. He absorbed cadence, word choice, energy, and personality through immersion. His advice: if you're writing for a person or personal brand, listen to them speak. If you're writing for a business, find real-world personalities who embody your brand's values and listen to how they talk. Then internalize it. This is more effective than any document because it's about osmosis, not rules. The email breakdown reveals why: Kyle didn't follow a template. He wrote like he was having a conversation with someone he knew.The email itself is a masterclass in **specificity**. Instead of "high up above the skyscrapers," Kyle wrote "1,416 feet in the air." Instead of "luxury listing," he said "$250 million triplex" at "Central Park Tower," the "most expensive listing ever in the United States." Each specific detail makes the reader *feel* the exclusivity. It's not marketing fluff—it's world-building. The specificity creates a mental image that makes the offer feel real and tangible. For B2B: replace "enterprise-grade" with "handles 10M+ transactions per day." Replace "easy to use" with "onboards in under 5 minutes." Specificity is credibility.But Kyle thinks five steps ahead. The email isn't just selling tickets—it's constructing a world of exclusivity around the event. Every element reinforces that world: "Early Access" in the subject line signals insider status. "Since you're on the mastermind wait list" reminds people they're part of a curated group. The Wall Street Journal link (with its paywall) signals prestige—hitting the paywall *reinforces* that this is exclusive. "All showing agents are vetted" means you can't just show up; you have to be approved. "Once it's sold, it'll be forever closed" creates scarcity and finality. This isn't manipulation. It's intentional storytelling. And it matters because the story you tell internally (we sold out in one email) becomes the story you tell externally (everyone wants in now).Kyle also reveals a tactical choice that most marketers miss: he sent the email through HubSpot but made it *look* like a personal email from Outlook. No fancy header. No marketing template. Just "Hi there" and conversational language. Why? Because personal emails get higher open rates, higher engagement, and feel more authentic. When you're selling a $7,000 ticket, you can afford to spend 3–4 hours replying to people personally. That human touch is worth it. The trade-off: you can't use a signup page. You have to be willing to handle the volume of replies. But for high-ticket offers, this is a no-brainer.The bigger picture Kyle emphasizes is this: **in an age where AI can replicate your software in seconds, brand and community are your only defensible advantages**. And brand is built on point of view. Not politics or religion—but a clear stance on where your industry is going and what your customers need to succeed. Perplexity has a POV on AI research. Claude has a POV on safety and privacy. Open AI is more generalist—which is why specialists are carving out niches. For B2B SaaS: if you're not prescriptive about what your customers should do, you're invisible. Tell them what to do. Make it the easy path. Customers are lazy—they want an expert to guide them, not a generic platform.Whether you're a B2B SaaS marketer building brand voice, a copywriter learning the mechanics of persuasive writing, a founder building a personal brand, or a product marketer learning how to position and communicate value, this episode offers practical frameworks for building messaging that cuts through noise and creates desire. Kyle's breakdown of how he constructed exclusivity through language and storytelling is worth a listen—and worth applying to your own work.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH KYLEKyle Scott on LinkedInKyle Scott's NewsletterInstagram: @kylescotsoriginalLuxury PresenceSHOW NOTES00:00 The Power of Brand and Community01:05 Welcome to the Message Market Fit Podcast02:12 Introducing Today's Guest: Kyle Scott02:53 Dissecting a High-Performing Email07:56 The Importance of Voice and Tone in Marketing16:41 Crafting Emails with Specificity and Credibility23:29 Scarcity and Personal Touch in Email Marketing24:20 The Power of Storytelling in Marketing26:07 Exclusivity and Event Details27:38 Crafting the Perfect Email30:56 Learning and Adapting Your Voice36:30 The Importance of Brand and Community40:51 Testing and Intuition in Email Campaigns42:21 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
We start by exploring Sam's "Revenue Not Vanity" philosophy and why traditional SEO approaches focused on top-funnel, informational content are becoming less effective. With Google's AI overviews dominating informational searches, Sam explains how the real opportunity lies in bottom-funnel, high-intent keywords where prospects are actively evaluating solutions. His three-column keyword research framework—your offer (however prospects describe it), industries you serve best, and main competitors—creates long-tail opportunities that are less competitive but highly qualified.Sam walks us through his transparent approach to competitor content, advocating for pages that build trust by leading with where you're not the best fit before doubling down on your differentiators. This positions you as the helpful guide rather than the pushy salesperson. He also shares his "blow out the water" content strategy, which involves systematically analyzing what's already ranking and one-upping it with better research, customer insights, testimonials, and proof elements.We also discuss SEO in the age of AI search, where Sam shares compelling data showing Google still receives 373 times more searches than ChatGPT and all AI tools combined. His strategy focuses on fundamentals that work across both traditional and AI search—particularly brand mentions and getting listed on relevant industry sites. Throughout the conversation, Sam emphasizes that effective SEO content requires deep customer understanding of how prospects describe their problems, what alternatives they're using, and why they choose one solution over another.Whether you're a marketing leader trying to prove SEO ROI, a founder looking to build predictable organic pipeline, or a content strategist wanting to move beyond vanity metrics, this episode delivers actionable frameworks you can implement immediately.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH SAMLinkedInBreaking B2B WebsiteSHOW NOTES00:00 Introduction and Sam's "Revenue Not Vanity" Value Proposition03:00 Sam's Journey from Web Agencies to B2B SEO Specialist06:00 Why Traditional SEO Traffic Doesn't Convert09:00 The Money Keywords Framework: Offer + Industry + Competitors15:00 Finding Long-Tail Opportunities in Competitive Markets18:00 Sam's Content Creation Process and Research Methods24:00 Building Competitor Comparison Pages That Build Trust30:00 The "Blow Out the Water" Content Strategy36:00 Technical SEO vs. Content: Where to Focus Your Energy40:00 SEO in the Age of AI: Is Google Dead?44:00 Sam's London Street Experiment: "Has AI Killed Google?"46:00 Where Sam Goes to Learn and Grow Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
We begin by exploring Besnik's journey from launching 10+ failed MVPs to building Salesflow into a multi-million revenue business. He reveals his five-stage product validation framework: discovery interviews with potential customers, landing page testing without building the actual product, audience building (he had 10,000 B2B writer subscribers before launching Content Flow), regional scalability assessment, and growth channel validation. This methodical approach has been crucial to his success in avoiding products that don't solve real market problems.Besnik then dives into his sophisticated approach to multi-persona messaging, explaining how Salesflow addresses three distinct customer segments—business owners, sales teams, and agencies—without diluting their message. Rather than trying to speak to everyone on the homepage, they use progressive segmentation, asking users to identify themselves during onboarding and then personalizing the entire app experience, from messaging to feature access. This strategy allows them to maintain high conversion rates while serving diverse use cases.We also explore his contrarian view on product-market fit timelines, with Besnik arguing that true PMF takes 12-24 months to validate, not the few weeks or months many founders expect. He looks for workflow integration—when customers fundamentally change how they operate because of your product—and sustained usage patterns over multiple renewal cycles. His growth hacking strategies focus on three key pillars: influencer partnerships, direct outbound using their own product, and expansion revenue from existing customers, but he emphasizes that growth hacking only works when you have solid product foundations.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH BESNIKBesnik on LinkedInSalesflow.ioSHOW NOTES00:00 Introduction to Besnik Vrellaku and Salesflow.io03:00 The Genesis of Salesflow: From 10+ MVPs to GTM Software06:00 Multi-Persona Messaging: Business Owners, Sales Teams, and Agencies09:00 Progressive Segmentation and Personalized User Journeys12:00 The Five-Stage Product Validation Framework15:00 Discovery Interviews and Qualitative Customer Research18:00 Building Audience Before Product: The Content Flow Example21:00 Growth Hacking Strategies for Bootstrap Founders24:00 The Three Pillars of Early-Stage Growth27:00 Product vs. Marketing vs. Growth Hacking Percentages30:00 Signs of Product Validation Worth Pursuing33:00 The Real Timeline for Product-Market Fit36:00 Message Testing Across Different Customer Personas39:00 Advice for Young Entrepreneurs: Seek More Help42:00 Learning Resources and Just-in-Time Knowledge Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
Maxwell opens by explaining the psychology behind quiz marketing's superior performance, revealing that personalized experiences combined with ego psychology—people's natural curiosity about themselves—creates a powerful conversion mechanism. He breaks down ScoreApp's comprehensive support philosophy that goes far beyond typical SaaS offerings, including live webinars, one-on-one calls, marketplace partnerships, and even publishing bestselling books on their methodology.We explore Maxwell's counterintuitive approach to organic growth, where ScoreApp completely eliminated paid advertising after four years when costs became prohibitive and effectiveness declined. Instead, they focused on SEO, weekly YouTube videos, podcasts, and face-to-face customer events in London, maintaining the same customer quality while reducing acquisition costs. Maxwell emphasizes the importance of absorbing customer feedback "like a sponge" rather than building products in isolation.The conversation also covers Maxwell's philosophy that 95% of business problems stem from having the wrong people in wrong positions. He shares his approach to building teams of A-players who naturally elevate each other's performance, comparing it to how Michael Jordan made any basketball team better simply through his presence and high standards. Maxwell also discusses his market-driven product development approach, where co-founder Daniel messaged 3,000 people before launching to gather data on what shape the product should take.Whether you're a B2B marketer looking to crack personalization at scale, a founder trying to build high-performing teams, or a growth leader seeking organic acquisition strategies, this episode offers practical frameworks and insights you can implement immediately.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH MAXWELLMaxwell on LinkedInScoreAppFree ScoreApp BookSHOW NOTES00:00 Introduction and Maxwell’s background03:00 The purpose of marketing beyond driving sales04:00 ScoreApp’s “forcing clients to be successful” philosophy06:00 How Maxwell influences messaging as CRO09:00 The importance of right people in right positions12:00 What marketing and sales need to agree on14:00 Introduction to scorecard/quiz marketing18:00 Most effective use cases for quiz marketing20:00 Quiz vs traditional call-to-action strategies22:00 Writing effective quiz questions and AI assistance24:00 ScoreApp’s visitor-to-lead conversion strategies27:00 Quiz marketing’s impact on conversion rates (30% vs 10-15%)29:00 Common lead magnet mistakes companies make31:00 Scaling to 7,000+ subscribers and organic growth33:00 Using personalization and customer data insights35:00 The power of face-to-face customer feedback37:00 Insights from customer behavior analysis40:00 Why ScoreApp stopped paying for advertising42:00 Role of influencer marketing in their strategy44:00 Maxwell’s learning resources and investment approach Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
Throughout our conversation, Ronnie emphasizes the importance of treating content as a product rather than just a marketing activity. He explains his three core principles for successful content creation: content is a product, content is an experience, and content is an ecosystem. We explore how these principles can help B2B marketers create more effective content strategies that connect with their audience.Ronnie also shares his insights on the critical concept of the "day one list" - the pre-existing shortlist of solutions that B2B buyers already have in mind before they even begin their formal buying journey. He explains why getting on this list is crucial, as research shows buyers choose from this list 80% of the time.We discuss the relationship between mindshare and attention, with Ronnie breaking down the four stages of attention: peak, merit, reward, and convert. He challenges the notion that mindshare and attention are separate concepts, arguing that mindshare is simply sustained attention over time.Whether you're a content marketer, strategist, or SaaS leader looking to build a more effective content engine, this episode offers valuable insights on creating content that resonates with your audience and drives business results.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH RONNIERonnie on LinkedInNeutral Ground Labs websiteSHOW NOTES02:29 Using the Hero's Journey in B2B Marketing04:04 Creating Tension in B2B Storytelling06:00 Treating Content as a Flight Simulator for Customers08:59 Ronnie's Background in Media and Film13:00 From Commodified Content to Strategic Media17:58 Ronnie's Unique Research Methodology21:21 Understanding the Day One List in B2B Buying24:25 Capturing Trigger Events in Your Content Strategy27:28 The Marketing Marshmallow Test: Balancing Short and Long-Term Results33:34 The Difference Between Mindshare and Attention39:00 Why B2B Marketers Should Think Like Broadcasters43:00 Three Core Principles for Successful Content Creation45:00 Ronnie's Upcoming Book on Brand to Demand Marketing Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
We begin by exploring the critical difference between positioning and messaging, with Vassi explaining how positioning focuses on your place in the market while messaging determines what you actually say to your audience. She walks us through her comprehensive messaging framework that helps companies articulate their value pillars in ways that resonate with different customer personas.Vassi shares her methodical approach to customer research, emphasizing the importance of focusing on past experiences rather than opinions to uncover genuine insights. She provides practical strategies for extracting valuable information from internal teams, particularly sales professionals who often hold the keys to understanding customer perspectives in B2B environments.We also discuss the challenges of implementing messaging frameworks across organizations and how to ensure adoption through proper documentation, training, and follow-up processes. Vassi reveals her approach to using AI tools like ChatGPT and Claude to maintain consistent brand voice, including practical tips for creating prompt libraries that teams can use to generate cohesive content.Whether you're a SaaS marketer, content strategist, or brand manager, this episode offers actionable insights to help you develop messaging that truly connects with your target audience and drives results.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH VASSILENAVassilena on LinkedInMarketing Matters NewsletterStrategic Content and Messaging CourseSHOW NOTES02:04 Distinguishing Between Positioning and Messaging04:06 Vassilena's Journey from Full-Stack Marketer to Messaging Expert07:29 The Typical Messaging Project Process11:12 Creating an Effective Messaging Framework15:00 Extracting Voice of Customer from Internal Teams17:28 Using Past Experiences to Uncover Customer Truth21:12 The Value of External Consultants in Messaging Projects24:49 Establishing Trust with Technical Teams30:12 Common Implementation Mistakes and How to Avoid Them35:36 Balancing Framework Structure with Persona Flexibility39:24 Leveraging AI for Consistent Brand Voice44:12 Organizing Science Events and Translating Complex Concepts49:36 Vassilena's Content Marketing and Messaging Course Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
Throughout our conversation, Mike emphasizes that synthetic research should enhance rather than replace traditional customer research. He explains how AI personas can help marketers get out of their own heads and gain valuable insights about their customers' perspectives, especially when testing new ideas or messaging. We also discuss common misconceptions about synthetic research and why some marketers are hesitant to embrace it.Mike demonstrates how AskRally works through a live demo, showing how you can create detailed personas based on demographic and behavioral data, then ask them questions in a chat interface. We explore how the platform handles bias, ensuring AI personas reflect real-world behaviors rather than idealized responses. Mike also shares examples of how companies are using synthetic research to test ad copy, website messaging, and product features before investing in development or paid advertising.One of the most interesting aspects we cover is how synthetic research can be integrated into automated workflows, allowing marketers to continuously test and optimize their messaging at scale. Mike shows how AskRally's API can be used with automation tools to create a feedback loop for creative ideas.Whether you're a marketer looking to test messaging more efficiently or a founder trying to better understand your target audience, this episode offers valuable insights into how synthetic research can complement your existing research methods.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH MIKEMike on LinkedIn Mike on TwitterAskRally's websiteSHOW NOTES02:00 Why Traditional Marketers Are Skeptical of Synthetic Research04:04 Best Use Cases for Synthetic Research07:00 The Human-AI Feedback Loop09:00 Using AI to Practice Customer Interviews11:00 Synthetic Research vs. Traditional Market Research14:00 How Rally Helps Performance Marketers Test Ad Creative17:00 The Biggest Misconception About Synthetic Research21:00 Creating AI Personas Based on Your Target Audience (screenshare)26:00 Testing Marketing Messages with AI Personas (screenshare)31:00 Using Images and Video for Synthetic User Testing39:00 Calibrating AI to Match Real-World Human Biases43:00 Automating Research with N8N and Rally's API (screenshare)51:00 How AI Can Help Us Develop Greater Customer Empathy Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
Throughout our conversation, Maja emphasizes the importance of customer research as the most overlooked aspect of successful go-to-market strategies. She explains why founders often avoid talking to customers and how spending 60% of your time defining and refining your Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) can make all the difference in your success.We explore Maja's "beachhead strategy" for market segmentation, which focuses on starting with a small market segment that has a burning pain point, reasonable willingness to pay, proximity to your expertise, and the ability to produce case studies for future growth. Maja also shares her framework for creating a differentiated value proposition, especially important in the age of AI.Maja provides practical advice on testing messaging with early customers, selecting the right channels for your go-to-market approach, and why positioning should come before branding. She outlines seven go-to-market motions and offers a systematic approach to choosing the ones that will work best for your specific situation.Whether you're a founder, marketer, or product leader, this episode is packed with actionable insights to help you focus your resources where you have the highest chance of winning and give your product the fighting chance it deserves.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH MAJAMaja on LinkedInGTM Strategist websiteGTM Power HourGTM ChecklistSHOW NOTES00:59 The Universal Truth About Go-To-Market Success02:00 Why Companies Avoid Customer Discovery05:58 Making Go-To-Market a Science09:58 The Beachhead Strategy for Market Segmentation13:58 Positioning vs. Branding: What Comes First18:58 Building in Public: Strategic Approaches24:58 Creating a Differentiated Value Proposition31:58 Testing Messaging with Limited Resources35:58 Synthetic Research with AI for Customer Feedback37:58 Selecting the Right Go-To-Market Channels43:58 Cold Outreach and Social Selling Strategies45:58 Top AI Tools for Go-To-Market Strategy Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
We explore how language models can effectively role-play specific personas with realistic personalities, biases, and decision-making patterns. Hugo explains the technology behind creating diverse synthetic users and why these AI personas can provide valuable product feedback that closely mirrors real human responses.Hugo shares insights on how their platform handles cognitive biases, emotional reactions, and decision-making processes to create realistic simulations. We discuss the differences between aligned and unaligned models, and how shuffling between different providers helps create more authentic responses that reflect the diversity of human opinions.The conversation also covers practical applications of synthetic research for message testing, usability testing, and product development. Hugo addresses criticisms of "research without users" and explains why synthetic research can be a powerful complement to traditional user research methods, especially in early stages of product development.Whether you're a product manager, marketer, or UX researcher, this episode offers valuable insights into how AI is transforming user research and opening new possibilities for testing ideas quickly and efficiently.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH HUGOHugo on LinkedInSynthetic Users websiteHugo on TwitterSHOW NOTES00:00 Introduction to Synthetic Users and AI personas03:00 Hugo's background in psychology and product management06:46 The origin story of Synthetic Users09:30 From academic research to solving participant recruitment problems14:00 How LLMs simulate human decision-making and emotional responses18:30Incorporating cognitive biases and personality traits into AI personas22:45 Creating diversity through aligned and unaligned AI models27:30Comparing different commercial AI models for research30:15Overcoming AI's tendency to please users34:00 Using contextual data to enhance synthetic personas38:00 Future possibilities: AI for website testing and usability research43:00 Addressing criticisms of "research without users"46:00 Using synthetic users to test product naming decisions48:30 The future of synthetic research and product development Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
Throughout our conversation, Brandon explains how offline media fits into the B2B SaaS ecosystem, particularly at Miro where he helps translate product marketing messaging into effective offline formats like podcast ads and billboards. He emphasizes the importance of simplifying complex messaging for offline channels while maintaining brand consistency across all touchpoints.We explore the fascinating cultural differences in marketing across European markets, with Brandon sharing how messaging that resonates in the Netherlands might need significant adaptation for more risk-averse markets like Germany. He provides practical insights on how to localize messaging while respecting cultural nuances and business attitudes.Brandon also breaks down the distinction between brand awareness and performance marketing in offline campaigns, offering a strategic framework for marketers looking to get stakeholder buy-in. His "Everest mentality" approach advocates starting with small, measurable tests before scaling to larger investments - a practical path for B2B companies hesitant about offline channels.For marketers curious about expanding beyond digital, Brandon makes a compelling case for audio advertising, particularly podcasts, as an underutilized channel where B2B brands can find highly targeted audiences with strong host affinities.Whether you're a B2B marketer looking to diversify your channels or a SaaS company trying to stand out in a crowded digital landscape, this episode offers valuable insights on incorporating offline media into your marketing strategy.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH BRANDONBrandon on LinkedInEmail: lutz.brandonjames@gmail.comSHOW NOTES02:44 Brandon’s Journey into Offline Media04:00 Offline Media’s Role at Miro05:50 Addressing Different Decision Makers with Offline Media08:50 Adapting Product Marketing Messaging for Offline Channels10:45 Testing and Measuring Offline Media Effectiveness13:45 Cultural Differences in Marketing Across European Markets17:45 Balancing Brand Awareness vs. Performance in Offline Media20:30 Why B2B SaaS Companies Should Invest in Offline Advertising23:45 Creating Distinctive Messaging in B2B Advertising25:30 Capturing Attention Effectively in Offline Media28:30 The “Everest Mentality” for Gaining Stakeholder Buy-in32:15 Testing Strategies Before Approaching Stakeholders34:45 Trends in Podcast Advertising37:15 Using AI for Marketing Research and Communication38:30 Brandon’s Approach to Learning and Professional Development Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
We dive into Sendoso's journey from initially targeting sales teams to discovering that marketing leaders were the actual buyers. Kris explains their category naming evolution - from the failed "engagement delivery platform" to the more descriptive and customer-friendly "direct mail and gifting platform" - highlighting the importance of using language your customers already understand.Kris shares fascinating insights on how companies use strategic gifting to drive remarkable results, including how Gong generated over $30 million in pipeline from sending pinatas and how Gainsight leveraged their CEO's book to create $8 million in pipeline. We discuss the balance between personalization and scale, with Kris explaining their three-part personalization framework: personalizing around the individual, the signal, or the action.We also explore how Sendoso's messaging evolved from feature-focused to outcome-driven, and how they use data and AI to enhance creativity in gifting strategies. Whether you're a startup founder or marketing leader, this episode offers valuable insights on breaking through the noise in today's crowded digital landscape.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH KRISKris on LinkedInSendoso's websiteEmail Kris: kris@sendoso.comSHOW NOTES02:03 From Sales to Sendo: The Origin Story04:00 How Sales Background Influenced Sendo's Vision05:07 The Pivot: When Marketing Became the Primary Buyer06:26 Category Creation: The Evolution of Messaging08:12 Testing Categories vs. Using Customer Language10:18 Website Messaging: From Features to Outcomes12:46 The Power of Visual Storytelling and Product Tours14:40 Adapting to Modern Buyer Research Habits16:14 Dynamic Headlines and Specific Value Propositions19:16 Research Methods for Informing Messaging Strategy21:19 Messaging Milestones: From Features to Outcomes22:22 Using Slack to Share Customer Feedback and Research24:11 Customer Success Stories: Generating Millions in Pipeline25:31 The Art of Personalization in Gifting28:10 Scaling Gifting Through Automation29:24 Sendo as a "Swiss Army Knife" for Marketing and Sales31:11 Why Early-Stage Companies Benefit from Gifting32:22 Current Trends in Company Positioning33:32 Balancing Data and Creativity in Messaging34:58 Campaign Spotlight: Halloween-Themed Marketing36:03 "Swag That Stays": Creating Lasting Impressions37:04 Advice for Founders on Positioning New Products37:51 The Future: From Logistics to Data and AI Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
Throughout our conversation, Chima emphasizes that successful content should always prioritize the end user over the brand. She discusses how timely, relevant content that addresses current industry challenges consistently performs best, and reveals her strategy of featuring recognized experts to make content stand out in a crowded space.We explore the critical importance of building personal and brand authority in today's AI-dominated landscape. As Chima explains, "You want your brand name to become so recognizable that even before people start doing that search on search engines, they're already thinking of you." She shares practical advice on how companies can develop internal thought leaders and leverage partnerships to enhance brand authority.Chima also breaks down her approach to platform-specific content creation, explaining how she determines whether a topic is better suited for a blog post, podcast, or webinar. She shares her content repurposing strategy, demonstrating how a single webinar can be transformed into blog posts, videos, graphics, and social media content to reach audiences across multiple channels.Whether you're a content marketer, SEO specialist, or brand strategist, this episode offers valuable insights on creating content that not only ranks well but genuinely resonates with your audience and drives meaningful results.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH CHIMAChima on LinkedInMoz's websiteMy case study working with Chima on Moz Pro and API positioning, messaging and copySHOW NOTES02:15 Creating Content That Truly Resonates with Users04:53 The Power of Featuring Experts in Your Content06:39 Building and Leveraging Your Professional Network07:32 The Growing Importance of Brand Authority in the AI Era10:12 Diversifying Traffic Sources Beyond Google13:12 Balancing Educational Content with Product Promotion15:29 Platform-Specific Content Creation Strategies19:31 The Art of Storytelling in Content Marketing22:59 Attracting Quality Traffic That Drives ROI25:59 Auditing and Updating Large Content Libraries34:29 Automation Strategies for Content Management39:01 Key Advice for Content Marketers in 2025 Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
Throughout our conversation, Shirin emphasizes the importance of starting with a strong narrative before moving to positioning and messaging work. She explains her discovery and intake process when onboarding new clients, highlighting how crucial these first few weeks are for project success. We discuss how she manages review cycles, the ideal number of stakeholders involved (no more than 3-4), and how to avoid the pitfalls of having too many reviewers.Shirin shares her definition of product marketing as "connecting the market and the customer with your product," and breaks down the differences between narrative, positioning, and messaging documents. She stresses that companies often jump straight to messaging without revisiting their positioning, which can lead to misalignment and ineffective communication.We explore how to track messaging performance, the importance of looking for patterns in data rather than making reactive changes, and why positioning should be revisited approximately every six months. Shirin also discusses her collaborative approach to consulting, including her model of working with another product marketer to provide better service and combat the isolation of consulting work.Whether you're a product marketer, marketing leader, or founder looking to improve your product storytelling, this episode offers valuable insights into creating compelling narratives that resonate with your audience and align your teams.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH SHIRINShirin on LinkedInShirin's websiteSHOW NOTES02:11 What's most exciting about product marketing03:14 Defining product marketing: connecting market, customer, and product05:51 Discovery and intake process for new clients08:32 Working with a product marketing partner13:18 Hardest part of positioning and messaging work15:28 Importance of staying informed about broader company updates19:49 Being the chief storyteller of your product21:18 Defining narrative, positioning, and messaging23:09 Post-discovery process and frameworks25:10 One-pagers vs. comprehensive documentation27:25 Managing review cycles effectively29:18 Organizing and making sense of data34:14 How often to revisit positioning39:22 Where Shirin goes to learn and grow40:52 The Time Left dinner experience with strangers Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
We explore how Dmitry's engineering mindset shaped his approach to brand building, treating brand components as "Lego blocks" that can be assembled in different ways. He shares practical strategies for creating reusable systems that empower teams across an organization while maintaining brand consistency.Dmitry discusses the importance of emotional connection in B2B marketing, challenging the notion that business decisions are purely rational. He emphasizes how understanding universal human truths can help brands connect more authentically with their audience, regardless of the number of personas they serve.The conversation also covers the critical aspects of system adoption and enablement, with Dmitry sharing his experiences implementing large-scale brand systems at HubSpot and helping clients overcome resistance to change.Whether you're a marketing leader, brand strategist, or creative professional, this episode offers valuable insights into building scalable brand systems that drive consistency while enabling creativity.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH DMITRYDmitry on LinkedInThe Creative Brand websiteSHOW NOTES00:00 Introduction to Reusable Modules and Components00:39 Welcome to the Message Market Fit Podcast01:24 Guest Introduction: Dmitry Shamis02:09 Defining a Creative Brand03:02 Challenges in Creative Teams04:29 Transition from Web Development to Creative Marketing09:17 The Importance of Curiosity and Problem-Solving15:35 The Intersection of Brand and Product Marketing26:44 The Importance of Translation in Marketing28:01 Building a Brand Like Lego Blocks29:16 Creating Reusable Marketing Components30:45 Enabling Teams with Tools and Systems37:30 Connecting Emotionally with Your Audience40:38 Overcoming Habit and Apathy in Organizations42:35 The Role of a Consultant in Driving Change45:45 Looking Ahead to 2025: Setting Priorities47:59 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
Kevin discusses the unique challenges of B2B advertising compared to B2C, emphasizing the importance of audience qualification and dealing with abstract products. He explains his agency's approach to creating effective ad variations, focusing on visual headlines and leveraging the SUCCESS framework for brainstorming compelling ad ideas.We explore the power law phenomenon in digital advertising and how it impacts ad performance and budget allocation. Kevin also shares valuable tips on working with enterprise clients, balancing creativity with data-driven decisions, and adapting messaging for different personas and decision-makers.Whether you're a B2B marketer looking to improve your advertising ROI or a founder seeking to scale your business through paid channels, this episode offers actionable insights to elevate your advertising game.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH KEVINKevin on LinkedInRight Percent's websiteSHOW NOTES02:13 Kevin's journey into B2B advertising03:21 Key differences between B2B and B2C advertising05:21 The concept of performance marketing in B2B10:06 How modern advertising works on power laws11:57 Creating effective ad variations for B2B15:54 Top lessons from working with big companies19:09 Using the SUCCESS framework for ad creation22:15 Balancing creativity and data in ad messaging27:16 Favorite ways of testing messaging31:11 Speaking to different personas and decision-makers33:54 The debate between lead gen and demand gen36:30 Current trends in B2B advertising for 202438:32 Using personality typing in team management Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
We explore Ryan's unique approach to customer interviews, focusing on buyer processes rather than demographics. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the larger context in which businesses operate and make decisions, rather than relying solely on job titles or company size.Ryan walks us through his methodology for crafting effective interview questions, managing biases, and extracting valuable insights. He shares tips on how to get busy executives to participate in research and discusses the ideal number of interviews needed to reach insight saturation.Whether you're a B2B marketer, product manager, or founder looking to better understand your customers, this episode is packed with practical advice to help you conduct customer interviews that truly move the needle for your business.Enjoy! Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
We explore Natália's transition into product marketing and her experience as a solo marketer at a startup. She discusses the importance of balancing strategic thinking with operational tasks and growing expertise in channels that bring the most users.Natália takes us through Ranking Raccoon's journey, from its inception as a solution to the founders' own link-building struggles to its current position in the market. We discuss the challenges of positioning and messaging for different user segments, including in-house marketers and agency professionals.We delve into Ranking Raccoon's approach to user research and testing, exploring various methodologies from user interviews to surveys and product launch platforms. Natália shares insights on how they test messaging across different channels and adapt their tone of voice based on user feedback.Finally, we touch upon content marketing strategies and the balancing act between SEO and messaging goals in blog writing. Natália also shares her go-to resources for staying up-to-date in the product marketing field.Whether you're a startup founder, an aspiring product marketer, or simply interested in the challenges of early-stage SaaS marketing, this episode offers valuable insights and actionable advice to help you navigate the complexities of product positioning and messaging.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH NATALIANatália on LinkedInRanking Raccoon's websiteSHOW NOTES02:40 Natália's Journey into Product Marketing05:14 Challenges as a Solo Marketer at a Startup10:54 Ranking Raccoon's Origin and Target Audience14:18 Value Proposition and Positioning Strategy17:52 User Research Methodologies21:27 Messaging Testing and Insights26:48 Tone of Voice and Brand Personality30:26 Challenges in Product-Market Fit and Messaging38:51 Content Marketing and SEO Strategy43:25 Resources for Product Marketing Learning Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
We explore Tamara’s journey from working at Markup, a Chrome extension for design feedback, to launching her own consultancy. She discusses her approach to creating customer personas based on intent rather than traditional demographics, and how she leverages user interviews and sales team insights to uncover valuable messaging opportunities.Tamara also shares her framework for understanding buyer roles and objections, emphasizing the importance of addressing psychological biases in marketing messages. We delve into her experimentation process and how she balances confidence with humility when proposing new marketing initiatives.Whether you’re a SaaS founder, marketer, or product manager, this episode offers practical strategies and psychological insights to elevate your marketing game and drive growth.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH TAMARATamara on LinkedInPractical Marketer websiteSHOW NOTES02:20 Tamara’s Experience at Markup and Reaching 400k Users06:46 Creating Intent-Based Personas vs Traditional ICPs15:00 Leveraging Customer Interviews for Messaging Insights21:28 Tamara’s Experimentation Framework26:46 Addressing Buyer Objections and Perceived Value32:16 Uncovering Customer Insights Through Various Channels38:12 Message Testing Strategies for B2B SaaS43:54 Transitioning from In-House to Consulting45:32 Upcoming Book and Newsletter Launch46:08 Recommended Resources for Neuroscience in Marketing49:00 Gaming Lessons Applied to Marketing Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
We explore Talia’s unique approach to conversion optimization, which focuses on understanding customers’ emotional drivers before analyzing website data. She explains how this customer-first methodology leads to more impactful hypotheses and test ideas.Talia breaks down the concept of emotional targeting in B2B, discussing why it’s often underestimated and how companies can effectively incorporate it into their messaging and design. We also delve into her process for conducting customer research, creating effective value propositions, and testing messaging across various channels.Whether you’re a B2B marketer, CRO specialist, or founder looking to improve your conversion rates, this episode offers valuable insights on how to connect with your audience on an emotional level and drive sustainable growth.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH TALIATalia on LinkedInTalia on TwitterGetuplift’s websiteSHOW NOTES02:46 Talia’s journey from social media to CRO06:26 The power of emotional targeting in B2B11:42 Conducting effective customer research16:28 Creating value propositions that resonate21:28 Testing messaging across different channels26:03 Balancing features and emotional benefits31:08 Overcoming challenges in B2B messaging36:27 Talia’s approach to continuous learning41:37 Upcoming book on emotion in B2B marketing Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy
We explore the challenges product marketers face in gaining buy-in from executive teams and how to overcome them. Gab provides insights on aligning sales and marketing teams, crafting effective messaging strategies, and the importance of market segmentation for startups.Gab also discusses his approach to podcasting, including how to differentiate in a crowded space and create meaningful conversations with guests. We touch on the concept of "message market fit" and why it's crucial for startups to focus on this before product market fit.Whether you're a product marketer looking to elevate your role, a founder aiming to refine your messaging strategy, or simply interested in the evolving landscape of B2B marketing, this episode offers valuable insights and actionable advice.Enjoy!CONNECT WITH GABGab on LinkedInWe're Not Marketers podcastSHOW NOTES02:23 Gab's Journey into Product Marketing04:09 Why Product Marketers Are Not Marketers08:14 Qualities of a Great Product Marketer10:54 Aligning Sales and Marketing Teams18:33 Defining Message Market Fit24:12 Challenges in B2B Marketing Jargon32:18 The Role of Podcasting in B2B Marketing37:14 The Importance of Market Segmentation for Startups42:25 Gab's Go-to-Market Audit Process47:21 Learning Resources for B2B Marketers Learn more at https://conversionalchemy.net/Connect with Chris https://linktr.ee/conversionalchemy