Episode 21 is a conversation with Abbie Vickress and Laura Parke, the duo of designers and educators behind the project Imperfect Index. Imperfect index is an initiative that looks at discrimination in design by giving space to ideas and projects that challenge the past in graphic design history, and — through a series of talks and publications—aims to collect voices that have been neglected, finding a way to look forward to a more diverse future in design practice, education and history. In this conversation we talked about cataloguing and indexing systems in graphic design history. Discussed notions of success and perfection in design discourse. We talked about how history can be made differently and how their initiative is working against mainstream design writing. But, we also talked about trust and care, self-doubt, and mostly imperfections.