If you’re a regular listener or reader of Bad Mothers, you know I adopted a puppy this year and it has been A LOT. I think it’s been a lot for me especially as an adamantly child-free woman. Because Annie demands all of my attention.

It made me want to talk to other women who have made really thoughtful choices about whether to have children, and how pets fit into those choices.

As soon as I found Katie’s Substack, I knew she’d make a great guest on this subject — and not just because she too has a “high energy” border collie. But more than talking about life with a dog, Katie offers a special perspective on the expected touchstones of life as a woman.

Katie Dunn writes Afterglow, a space dedicated to the other happy endings - the ones that don’t end with a marriage, two kids and a white picket fence - but are still full of joy, purpose, and meaning. After navigating divorce and two infertility chapters in her 30s, Katie shares essays that challenge the narrow scripts of womanhood and the silence around fertility treatment that doesn’t “work.”

Through honest storytelling, Katie explores what it means to step off the patriarchal escalator of life and create fulfilment, adventure and connection on your own terms.

I hope you enjoy this conversation! Please be aware we do discuss infertility.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit monicacardenas.substack.com