Isle McElroy joins Jess and Brandon to talk about intimacy, vulnerability and sex — on paper and in the flesh. An award-winning non-binary author based in New York, McElroy’s latest novel People Collide is a gender-bending, body-switching story exploring marriage, identity, and sex, which delves into questions about the nature of true partnership. Isle shares personal insights on what makes for a good sex scene, how inadequacy plays out in relationships and what they’ve learned from rethinking sex and pleasure.

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Rough Transcript:

This is a computer-generated rough transcript, so please excuse any typos. This podcast is an informational conversation and is not a substitute for medical, health, or other professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the services of an appropriate professional should you have individual questions or concerns.

Episode 343

Sex, Gender & Intimacy: People Collide with Isle McElroy

[00:00:00 ] You’re listening to the sex with Dr. Jess podcast, sex and relationship advice you can use tonight.

[00:00:15 ] Brandon Ware: Hey, hey, today we’re talking about sex, gender, and intimacy with Isle McElroy, an award winning non binary author based in New York, whose latest novel, People Collide, is a gender bending, body switching story about marriage, identity, and sex, which delves into questions about the nature of true partnership.

[00:00:31 ] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah, and this story isn’t your traditional kind of body swap, you know, thinking Freaky Fridays. So the story is… Eli, when Eli, the main character, leaves the cramped Bulgarian apartment, he shares with his wife, Elizabeth, who’s more organized, more successful than he is. He discovers that he now inhabits her body.

[00:00:48 ] Jess O’Reilly: So not only have he and his wife traded bodies, but Elizabeth living as Eli, has disappeared without a trace, and what follows is Eli’s search across Europe, to America, to find his missing wife, and an exploration of gender and embodied experience. As Eli comes closer to finding Elizabeth while learning to exist in her body, he begins to wonder what effect this metamorphosis will have on their relationship, and how long he can maintain the illusion of of living as someone he isn’t.

[00:01:17 ] Jess O’Reilly: And the questions, you know, are will their new marriage wither completely in each other’s bodies, or is this transformation the very thing Eli and Elizabeth need for their marriage? to thrive. So I’m really looking forward to this conversation. I’ve been reading the book. I’m almost done. I thought I’d be done by today, but I have a lot of questions about some of the messaging and themes, and I think it’s going to be a great conversation.

[00:01:37 ] Jess O’Reilly: Now, before we welcome our guest, I’ll want to announce a partnership with fellow podcasters Adventures from the Bedrooms of African Women. The podcast, season two, is out now and it’s hosted by Nana Darkwa Sakiyama and Malaika Grant. The podcast explores African women’s experiences of sex, sexuality, [00:02:00 ] and pleasure and they have a host of fabulous guests in their bedroom this season.

[00:02:05 ] Jess O’Reilly: They have top sexpert Ohlone from the UK, fabulous comedienne Yvonne Orji. Feminist powerhouse, Mona Altahawe, and many, many more. And they’re asking all their guests, what’s your sexy secret? What’s your secret, babe?

[00:02:19 ] Brandon Ware: I can’t tell you. It’s a secret. That’s why it’s a secret.

[00:02:21 ] Jess O’Reilly: So predictable. Okay. That and so much more in the new season of the Adventures from the Bedrooms of African Women podcast out now.

[00:02:30 ] Jess O’Reilly: Listen, wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:02:33 ] Jess O’Reilly: Joining us now is Al McElroy. Thank you so much for being here.

[00:02:37 ] Isle McElroy: Thank you so much for having me. It’s great to be here.

[00:02:39 ] Jess O’Reilly: So we’re enjoying reading through your work. Not only People Collide, but some of your previous work, Short Stories. I understand this is your second book.

[00:02:47 ] Jess O’Reilly: I was thinking about the pressure of an author in terms of your second book because everybody’s comparing it to your first, expecting more of the same. Is that something that, you know, you kind of face as an author or do you have to just leave it behind and do what works for you?

[00:03:01 ] Isle McElroy: Yeah, I think I have not, there’s definitely been a lot of comparison to the first book.

[00:03:07 ] Isle McElroy: I feel in a very strange place because my first book was published under my dead name. So it both feels as if this is my second book and my first book that is really mine. I think what’s been really exciting about the two books is that they do feel like they’re in conversation with each other. The first book, The Atmospherians, was about two best friends who start a cult to reform problematic men, uh, like a satire about gender.

[00:03:30 ] Isle McElroy: And this book is a more intimate about a married couple who swap bodies. And I do feel like it seems like a really amazing evolution. for me in how I’ve been thinking about gender, how I’ve been thinking about relationship. First book is a lot about friendship. This second book is a lot about marriage.

[00:03:46 ] Isle McElroy: So for me, I’ve been really always interested in tight knit, intimate relationship. And this book was an opportunity to be more romantic about it. So I haven’t felt most of the comparison has been with myself. Um, less so with [00:04:00 ] other people putting that on me, thankfully.

[00:04:01 ] Jess O’Reilly: Good for you. You know, um, you talk about intimacy and I definitely want to speak about