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https://youtu.be/uaYHJrgdwhA

What does it take to disqualify someone from ministry? An affair? Spiritual abuse? Sexual abuse? Abuse of power? Or, as some have claimed, can just about anyone be restored to ministry because “God is gracious” and “His call is irrevocable”?

This edition of The Roys Report takes a deep dive into the Scriptures—particularly, those specific verses used to justify restoring pastors to ministry who have fallen in egregious ways. Author and Bible teacher Ron Cantor joins host Julie Roys for this engaging discussion.

Partly because of confusion around the “irrevocable” call to ministry, the evangelical church is often like a game of “whack-a-wolf.” A pastor will be exposed as a fraud or abuser in one location. Then he’ll just go underground for a couple of years and relaunch somewhere else.

That’s why it’s critical to address common errors of theology and interpretation—including how to confront a sinning leader. In what situations do the principles of Matthew 18 apply, and how is it often misapplied? And what does the Apostle Paul mean by “being above reproach”?

This is such a relevant discussion now, given what’s happening with Mike Bickle, the founder of the International House of Prayer in Kansas City. (Full coverage here.) Bickle’s alleged sexual abuse of multiple women includes accounts from girls as young as 14- and 15-years old.

Yet some are suggesting that Bickle can still be restored. Is that really what the Bible instructs? Ron Cantor, a Jewish believer in Jesus who has authored ten books, engages the arguments heard often in evangelical circles—citing Scripture and context as he provides food for thought.

Guests

Ron Cantor

Ron Cantor, a Jewish believer in Jesus, is the Israeli director of God TV. He is the author of ten books and host of two TV shows, Out of Zion and Get Real. He is president of Shelanu TV, the only 24/7, Hebrew language TV channel sharing the message of Jesus. Ron and his wife, Elena, also direct the outreach arm of Shelanu, Messiah's Mandate International, which supports pastors in Israel, Holocaust survivors, and leaders in training. The Cantors live in Tel Aviv, Israel. Learn more at RonCantor.com.

Show Transcript

SPEAKERSKRIS VALLOTTON, RICK JOYNER, Julie Roys, STEPHEN STRANG, RON CANTOR

Julie Roys  00:04

What does it take to disqualify someone from ministry? An affair, spiritual abuse, sexual abuse, abuse of power, or as some have claimed, can just about anyone be restored to ministry because God is gracious, and his call is irrevocable? Welcome to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys, and today we’re going to take a deep dive into the scriptures used to justify restoring pastors to ministry who have fallen in some of the most egregious ways. We’re also going to take a look at how to confront a sinning elder. Does Matthew 18, which tells believers to first go to someone one-on-one with an offense apply to these situations? Or is this a misapplication of the passage? We’ll also look at the qualifications of an elder and we’ll explore, for example, what does it mean to be above reproach? Joining me for this discussion is Ron Cantor, an author and teacher and president of Shelanu TV. This is such a relevant discussion now given what’s happening with Mike Bickle, the founder of the International House of Prayer in Kansas City. Despite Bickle’s alleged sexual abuse of multiple women, including some as young as 14 and 15 years old. Some are suggesting that Bickle can still be restored to ministry. What do you think? But it’s not just Mike Bickle. I’ve often said it’s like whack-a-wolf in the evangelical community. A pastor will be exposed as a fraud or abuser in one location, and then he’ll just go underground for a couple of years and then relaunch somewhere else. Is that really God’s will? And is that really what the Bible instructs? I can’t wait to dive into these topics with Ron. But first, I’d like to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University, and Marquardt of Barrington if you’re looking for a top ranked Christian University, providing a caring community and an excellent college experience, Judson University is for you. Judson is located on 90 acres, just 40 miles west of Chicago in Elgin, Illinois. The school offers more than 60 majors, great leadership opportunities, and strong financial aid. Plus, you can take classes online as well as in person. Judson University is shaping lives that shape the world. For more information, just go to JUDSONU.EDU. Also, if you’re looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and transparency. That’s because the owners there, Dan and Kurt Marquardt, are men of integrity. To check them out, just go to BUYACAR123.COM. Well again, joining me is Ron Cantor, a Jewish believer in Jesus and the host of two TV programs, Out of Zion and Get Real. He’s also the author of 10 books. And he’s the president of Shelanu TV,  the only 24/7 Hebrew language TV channel, sharing the message of Jesus. So Ron, welcome. It’s just such a pleasure to have you.

 

RON CANTOR  03:08

Thank you, Julie. It’s great to be here.

 

Julie Roys  03:11

And I am so excited to be recording this podcast because I’m getting really frustrated, to be honest, with hearing a lot of people twist scriptures to say something that I don’t think they say at all. And I’m excited to get into that. And I’m really grateful for you because you’ve been very outspoken on social media. This is my introduction to you is on Twitter. Oh, I’m sorry, X now. But I’ve really appreciated that. So thank you for speaking so boldly.

 

RON CANTOR  03:38

Well, and thank you because you know, something I’ve said for a long time is that, when we as elders in the body don’t do our job, the Lord will use the media to expose things. And I believe that God has used you to push some things to the forefront. So bless you.

 

Julie Roys  03:55

Oh, well, thanks for saying that. And we usually are the last resort. We are the ones they come to after they’ve exhausted the elders in their church and all of the leaders that a victim or a whistleblower can go to. And sadly, you’re right, they often must come to us. And so that’s why we’re here. I would love I’ve said this before, I would love to be completely unnecessary in the body of Christ and for things to be handled in the church. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be happening anytime soon. But my prayer is that that will change as we begin doing more things like we’re doing today. So we will see. You’ve served in context like all around the world, like in Rockville, Maryland, which I know where that is. My sister lives in Maryland. I used to live in Pennsylvania. So you lead a messianic congregation there. You’ve been in the Ukraine. You’ve been a pastor of a congregation there in Jerusalem, and now you’re serving with God TV and Shelanu and doing you know, just amazing ministry. But when it comes to this topic of pastors who are in persistent sin or you know, significant fall, it’s been my experience that we don’t deal with this very well within the church. But I’m curious, in your experience, you know, over several decades of ministry, how have you seen the church respond? And has it been as awful as a lot of my reporting shows it is doing? Or have you seen some really, really positive examples of dealing with it?

 

RON CANTOR  05:26

Well, I’ll start with the negative and I’ll go to the positive, I think in the larger charismatic world, before I was even born, the charismatic movement started in the 60s. And, you know, we were, or they were, I should say, I wasn’t alive, they were kicked out or not received in the mainline denominational world where there were structures of accountability. Where, you know, you had superintendents, and you didn’t have one pastor with all of the power. So that kind of push the charismatic world out. You know, I don’t know if it’s the majority, but certainly a large number of charismatic churches are completely independent. And often they have one leader, what I’ll call the royal pastor model. He’s a charismatic figure, probably a very good communicator, good Bible teacher. And, you know, often the elders who surround him are Yes-men or Yes-women. And they don’t really have that level of accountability. And not just that, they build up such an aura around their personality and their calling, that when they do fall into moral failure, well, God forbid that I stop preaching, because think of the people that we won’t reach. Of course, my response is, yes, that’s what you should have thought of before you fell into it to adultery. You know, Samson should have thought about that before he got his eyes poked out. There is, we’ll get into later. But there is something called being disqualified. Now, I am very fortunate that when I graduated Bible school, I moved to Rockville, Maryland, I joined a congregation there called Beth Messiah. And they were in the beginnings of forming a network of Messianic Jewish leaders that believe i