How can you sell a fiction experience rather than just selling a story? How do our personal obsessions arise in our books, whatever the genre? David Viergutz shares his thoughts in this episode.

In the intro, the best marketing investments for authors [Self Publishing Advice]; Abundance mindset for authors [KWL Podcast]; Written Word Media have now announced direct sales links in their email newsletters.

Plus, Redefining a profession [Seth Godin]; Achieve more with Gen AI [Masterclass]; My thoughts on the Draft2Digital survey on AI licensing; My book, Artificial Intelligence, Blockchain, and Virtual Worlds; Spear of Destiny out now, and Blood Vintage: A Folk Horror Novel.

Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with writing software, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 15% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna

This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 

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David Viergutz is a disabled army and law enforcement veteran and the author of over 20 horror, dark fantasy, and thriller novels. He also hosts The Nightmare Engine Podcast.

You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 

Show Notes

• The similarities and differences between dark fantasy and horror





• Why horror is the genre of hope





• Religious elements in horror





• Multiple streams of income and selling wide





• The mindset shift to selling direct





• ScareMail — creating a unique fiction experience





• The behind the scenes work involved in selling a physical product





• Building your email list through your e-commerce store





• How to market your store for direct sales

You can find David at DavidViergutz.com

Transcript of Interview with David Viergutz

Joanna: David Viergutz is a disabled army and law enforcement veteran and the author of over 20 horror, dark fantasy, and thriller novels. He also hosts The Nightmare Engine Podcast. So welcome to the show, Dave.

David: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Joanna: Oh, I'm looking forward to talking to you today. First up—

Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and self-publishing.

David: Sure, I think my story is probably pretty similar to a lot of authors out there. We just had this dream very young that we were going to write books and stand in front of a crowd in Barnes and Noble, and there'd be all these people flocking to meet us.

So we start writing with this dream, and I think a lot of authors, they continue that dream. Then for me, I kind of fell off. So for about 15-20 years, I didn't write anything. I was focused on career and military and that sort of thing.

Eventually, I actually got hit with an ad for a popular publishing course, and it kind of opened my eyes. I was like, wait, there's other options. It doesn't have to be the pipe dream of a traditional contract and that sort of thing.

So I started exploring it, and I was a personal trainer at the time, I had that business going. Basically, I wrote my first book, and I was hooked. I realized I could write. I could write anytime I wanted.

I could learn how to write better, it wasn't a talent. I was told by a teacher a long time ago, like, you have to be born with talent, you can't learn this. I'm like, wow, way to crush my little dreams.

Yes, I learned, and I started writing, and I started studying, and I went all in on writing. I sold my fitness business and I joined this community, this self-published community. It's just brilliant, and people are so kind.

I tell every author I can meet, every time we talk, I say thank you for being a part of this community, for making it what it is. I came from fitness and its cutthroat over there, and it was not making me happy.

Now I get to do things that I love. I get to reach people directly. I get to be creative, and it didn't feel like fitness was very creative.

So l wrote my first novel, I think, in probably about a month, month and a half. Second one came out a few months after that. Third one, just a little bit faster than that. That was about four and a half, about five years ago. I've written 23 at this point.

I started in dark fantasy, realized it wasn't for me, and went into horror, and have pretty much stayed there. I wrote a couple outside the genre. I wrote some thrillers and crime thrillers. With a law enforcement background, it is a lot of fun.

So yes, I'm fully seated in horror now, that's where my heart is, and that's where I love to be. In general, I just love this community. So I'm going hard on it, on horror, and I don't plan on quitting anytime soon.

Joanna: That's great. A few things to come back on. So in fact, you and I were talking about this before the recording, about dark fantasy and horror, and the lines are pretty blurred, I think. For example, with vampire novels, some can be horror, some can be dark fantasy.

Where do you draw the line between dark fantasy and horror?

David: I remember asking this question of myself, because I'm like, man, maybe I need to rebrand. When things weren't going great, maybe I need to rebrand under dark fantasy to see if it might sell a little bit better.

So I started kind of examining these lines, and I said, well, in fantasy, the hero can be a hero, and he can solve the problem. Versus in horror, what makes it horrible is that we're just trying to survive, we're just trying to make it. It's about humans having a human response to something that is otherworldly.

Versus like dark fantasy, where you can have a hero dealing with something otherworldly, but he handles it in a fantastical matter. He has a chance, right, through magic, or through power, through spells, and through strength. In horror, the hero is just trying to survive.

I think that's more related to kind of what we deal with on a daily basis, you know, for our lives right now, or is it more dark fantasy? I'm like, man, it's definitely more in the horror if you kind of take a look at what's going on, and we just have to handle things in a human way.

So I just stuck with that. I'm like, if my characters are doing things the way humans do, then I would probably say that that's a horror novel. If there's magic and power and spells like that, I'd kind of lean more towards dark fantasy.

Joanna: It definitely blurred. I mean, on your website, you say, “I only write what scares me to create horror that stays with you.” I like that. I mean, that's your definition.

I was thinking of what I'm writing at the moment, a folk horror novel, Blood Vintage. Folk horror is quite a specific genre and quite a specific feel. It's got supernatural elements and organic elements, which I'm really fascinated with, but it's very, very different to something that might be, as you say, more human horror.

It's got elements of human hor