The Art and Science of Difficult Conversations

This week, Chris and Lucie interview Laurel Engbretson, a VP of strategy and operations, discussing the complexities of difficult conversations in leadership. Together, they explore Laurel's journey and her journey to building the courage to give feedback to her own manager. Laurel is a big advocate in the role of trust and the gradual process of building confidence in difficult conversations.  Together, they talk about: -        Building trust is crucial for giving and receiving feedback. -        Finding your voice takes time and practice. -        Trust is built over time and through shared experiences. -        Assuming positive intent can improve difficult conversations. -        Personal growth can enhance professional effectiveness.   About Laurel Laurel Engbretson is the national Vice President of Strategy & Operations at LISC. In this role she leads LISC’s Strategy & Operations team to facilitate strategy development and drive operational excellence toward LISC’s enterprise-level priorities. Laurel started at LISC as a Program Officer in the Bay Area, where she lived for 30 years before moving to the East Coast to join LISC’s national office. Before LISC, Laurel worked at the San Francisco Housing Accelerator Fund, JPMorgan Chase, the Oakland Mayor’s office, and in residential real estate. She has an MBA/MPP from Mills College and a BA in Sociology from the University of California, Santa Cruz.  Connect with us:  Chris - LinkedIn / Newsletter  Lucie - LinkedIn  / Saboteur Assessment   

In part 2 of their conversation, Chris and Lucie dive even deeper into the intricacies of networking with Jack Pittas, discussing essential strategies for building connections, the importance of tracking contacts, and the effectiveness of elevator pitches. They even persuade Jack to role play how to approach two different people at networking events. Takeaways  Networking is about building relationships, not closing sales.  Old-fashioned business cards are still relevant.  Elevator pitches should be conversational, not scripted.  Rejection is part of the networking process; learn from it.  Online networking can be as effective as in-person events.  Always be curious and ask questions to engage others. About Jack: Jack is a partner at Ace Business Development, which offers fractional sales, networking, and business development services to help small businesses build their pipeline and GovCons break into the government market. Jack and the Ace team use a "boots-on-the-ground" approach and their vast connections to build relationships on behalf of their clients to ultimately drive revenue opportunities.    Jack is also owner of PK Cyber Solutions which offers specialized content-writing on technical subjects including B2B tech, cybersecurity, and GovCon. Since 2020, Jack has generated a majority of his business via networking and building quality relationships.    Connect with Jack: Email: jack@acebusinessdev.com Website: https://www.acebusinessdev.com   Connect with us:  Chris - LinkedIn / Newsletter  Lucie - LinkedIn  / Saboteur Assessment 

This week, Chris and Lucie talk about the art and science of networking with expert Jack Pittas. They explore the importance of networking for professionals, especially for introverts, and provide practical tips on how to approach networking events, build relationships, and follow up effectively. Jack shares his insights on treating networking like a party, the significance of quality over quantity in relationships, and the long-term benefits of nurturing connections. Takeaways  Networking is essential for solopreneurs and small business owners.  Networking can help you find referral sources, not just clients.  Realize that you’re not alone, networking is hard for everyone  Treat networking events like parties to ease the pressure.  Follow up within one to two days after meeting someone.  Focus on quality relationships over quantity. About Jack: Jack is a partner at Ace Business Development, which offers fractional sales, networking, and business development services to help small businesses build their pipeline and GovCons break into the government market. Jack and the Ace team use a "boots-on-the-ground" approach and their vast connections to build relationships on behalf of their clients to ultimately drive revenue opportunities.   Jack is also owner of PK Cyber Solutions which offers specialized content-writing on technical subjects including B2B tech, cybersecurity, and GovCon. Since 2020, Jack has generated a majority of his business via networking and building quality relationships.  Connect with us:  Chris - LinkedIn / Newsletter / Courses Lucie - LinkedIn  / Saboteur Assessment 

What's the difference when a leader has healthy boundaries vs when they don't? Join us for the second part of our interview with Angela Barnes, where we will roleplay and discuss the complexities of setting boundaries in leadership roles, particularly within the nonprofit sector. We explore the challenges of people-pleasing tendencies, the importance of having a strategic plan, and the role of professional development in establishing effective boundaries. Through role-playing scenarios, we illustrate how to navigate difficult conversations and highlight the need for accountability and clarity in leadership. Missed the first part of the interview? Check it out here.  Key Takeaways: Boundaries are essential for effective leadership and personal well-being. People-pleasing can hinder decision-making and boundary setting. Role-playing scenarios can prepare leaders for difficult conversations. Having a strategic plan helps in managing expectations and responsibilities. Professional development is crucial for understanding and setting boundaries. Accountability is key in leadership; avoid blaming others for failures. Clear communication about goals and resources is necessary for success. Boundaries help regulate emotions and prevent burnout. Engaging with professional communities can provide support and guidance. Setting boundaries is an ongoing process that requires commitment and practice.   Contact Angela:  http://www.adbstrategies.com/  LinkedIn Connect with us:  Chris - LinkedIn / Newsletter / Courses Lucie - LinkedIn  / Saboteur Assessment   

Episode Overview In this insightful episode, hosts Chris Wong and Lucie Tesarova welcome Angela Barnes, MBA, CFRE, to explore one of the most challenging aspects of workplace communication: setting and maintaining boundaries. Angela brings over a decade of fundraising expertise and shares hard-won lessons about navigating boundaries in nonprofit organizations. Guest Angela D Barnes, MBA, CFRE Principal of ADB Strategy Specializes in working with nonprofits with operating budgets between $250K-$1M Provides development workshops, digital workbooks, and strategic consulting services Key Topics Discussed The Nonprofit Boundary Challenge Corporate vs. Nonprofit Dynamics: Angela explains how boundary expectations differ dramatically between for-profit and nonprofit sectors Board Structure Complications: Why nonprofit board members often have more visibility and direct access to staff than their corporate counterparts The Training Gap: How lack of proper board onboarding contributes to boundary violations The Seven Areas of Boundaries Angela introduces her holistic framework for understanding boundaries across seven key life areas and explains why we often fail to bring our personal boundaries into the workplace. Common Boundary Mistakes Waiting for the "perfect" verbal boundary: Boundaries can be set through behavior, posture, and simple communications (like email signatures) Setting boundaries in anger: Reacting emotionally instead of proactively communicating expectations Expecting mind-reading: Assuming others should know your boundaries without clear communication Staying in whine mode: Complaining repeatedly without taking action to change Kind vs. Nice: A Critical Distinction Nice = Sympathy: Over-accommodating, making exceptions, avoiding accountability Kind = Empathy: Understanding someone's situation while still maintaining standards and expectations The Late Employee Example: How Angela addressed chronic lateness with kindness but persistence, getting results after five years of others being "nice" Emergency Boundaries When boundaries aren't set proactively, you're forced into "emergency boundary" mode, which turns into crisis communications and difficult conversations. Key Takeaways ✅ Start with organizational boundaries: Understand what boundaries exist (or don't exist) in your workplace before setting personal ones ✅ Communicate boundaries proactively: Don't wait until you're frustrated or angry to express your limits ✅ Boundaries don't require confrontation: Simple changes like email signatures can set expectations without drama ✅ Whining signals readiness (or unreadiness): If you're complaining repeatedly without action, ask yourself if you're truly ready to change ✅ Own your destiny: Your boundaries and the enforcement of them are your responsibility, not other people's Contact Angela:  http://www.adbstrategies.com/  LinkedIn Connect with us:  Chris - LinkedIn / Newsletter / Courses Lucie - LinkedIn  / Saboteur Assessment   

Want a guide to follow while listening? Or notes for future reference? Download the free Power Dynamics Playbook here.  Ever freeze in a meeting when the stakes are high? This episode demystifies power dynamics. We talk about what they are, how they hijack your nervous system, and exactly what to say when you need to push back, manage up, lead from the middle, or invite real feedback as a leader. You’ll learn the six types of power (beyond “positional”), why the same words land differently depending on who says them, and practical, word-for-word moves you can use today (yes-and framing, power-leveling questions, structural safety, and more).   Who it’s for ICs & new managers who need to speak up to senior leaders Leaders who suspect they’re not getting the real story Peers navigating conflict without formal authority What you’ll learn The 6 power types: positional, expert, relational, resource, informational, and cultural/identity How power triggers fight/flight/freeze/fawn—and how to keep your prefrontal cortex online Why “impact over intent” defuses defensiveness and creates traction Concrete scripts: managing up, managing down, and managing across Key Takeaways Power isn’t the problem; invisible power is. Name it to tame it. Scripts that calm defenses beat “bravery speeches.” Try: “I love where this is headed and I want to flag one implementation risk.” Questions that level the field: “What would need to be true for this to work?” “How does this fit the priority we set last week?” Leaders: Don’t trust your gut on psychological safety—design for it (rotate facilitation, invite the quiet, respond to anonymous signals). For peers: Stop competing for the same power—trade it on purpose. Resources Mentioned Book: Willful Blindness by Margaret Heffernan  Free “Be Free” Saboteur Assessment (find your survival-brain patterns): https://mindfittery.com/befree  Lucie's LinkedIn Chris’s newsletter + connect with him on LinkedIn too and check out his online courses Episodes on cultural/identity dynamics (see channel playlist)

Summary:  In part 2 of their conversation, Matt Brown shares his insights on building credibility and trust within teams, overcoming skepticism in leadership roles, and navigating board dynamics. He emphasizes the importance of humility, active listening, and the willingness to learn from others. Matt discusses the responsibilities of leadership, particularly in maintaining the integrity of an organization while fostering growth.   Key Takeaways -        It's tough to gain credibility, but humility helps. -        Creating a learning environment is essential for team dynamics. -        Overcoming skepticism requires demonstrating value through action. -        Respecting and valuing each team member's expertise is crucial. -        Building trust takes time and consistent effort. -        Acknowledging others' contributions can build trust -        Mistakes in leadership can be learning opportunities.   About Matt Matt joined OARS as Executive Director in 2024. Prior to OARS, he was Chief Operating Officer at Lowell House, Inc., an addiction treatment non-profit serving Merrimack Valley. Matt served on the Randolph Conservation Commission and Community Preservation Committee before moving to Westford, MA. He served on the Westford Affordable Housing Committee and coached youth baseball and basketball in Westford. Matt holds an MS in Non-Profit Management from Worcester State University and an MA in English from Clark University.   Contact Matt Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-brown-0b9b21145/ Check out OARS: https://oars3rivers.org/      Interested in the difficult conversations course? Check it out here: https://www.myleadershippotential.com/trust Want to learn what kind of mind traps are sabotaging your communication and relationships with others? Go to https://www.mindfittery.com/befree to learn more.  Contact Chris: chris@myleadershippotential.com Contact Lucie: lucie@mindfittery.com or https://www.mindfittery.com      

In this episode, Chris Wong and Lucie Tesarova interview Matt Brown, an Executive Director of a Watershed nonprofit, to discuss the intricacies of difficult conversations in leadership. They explore Matt's journey in the nonprofit sector, the challenges of navigating resistance from employees and board members, and the importance of understanding motivations behind resistance. Matt shares personal stories of hard lessons he’s learned over the years.   Takeaways -        Practicing difficult conversations can lead to better outcomes. -        Understanding motivations behind resistance makes a huge difference -        Building trust requires open and honest communication.   About Matt Matt joined OARS (Organization for the Assabet, Sudbury, and Concord Rivers) as Executive Director in 2024. Prior to OARS, he was Chief Operating Officer at Lowell House, Inc., an addiction treatment non-profit serving Merrimack Valley. Matt served on the Randolph Conservation Commission and Community Preservation Committee before moving to Westford, MA. He served on the Westford Affordable Housing Committee and coached youth baseball and basketball in Westford. Matt holds an MS in Non-Profit Management from Worcester State University and an MA in English from Clark University.   Interested in the difficult conversations course? Check it out here: https://www.myleadershippotential.com/trust Want to learn what kind of mind traps are sabotaging your communication and relationships with others? Go to https://www.mindfittery.com/befree to learn more.  Contact Chris: chris@myleadershippotential.com Contact Lucie: lucie@mindfittery.com or www.mindfittery.com  

What does it take to build an international community? In part 2 of the conversation with Tasha Van Vlack, Chris and Lucie explore the intricacies of building and maintaining community within organizations, especially as they grow. Tasha shares her insights on navigating cultural differences in community engagement, emphasizing the importance of connection and flexibility. They also discuss the transition from management to leadership, highlighting the need for emotional intelligence, vulnerability, and the ability to celebrate team wins. Tasha's experiences provide valuable lessons for leaders looking to foster a sense of belonging and engagement in their teams.  Takeaways -        Maintaining connection in a growing community requires intentionality. -        Cultural differences can impact engagement and communication. -        Flexibility in participation is crucial for community members. -        Celebrating team wins boosts morale and fosters connection. -        Emotional intelligence is essential for effective leadership. -        Vulnerability helps leaders connect with their teams. -        Listening to community members is key to understanding their needs. -        Consistency in communication builds trust and engagement. -        Leaders should focus on visibility and value for their team members. -        Community is an organic ecosystem that requires shared control. About Tasha  Tasha Van Vlack is a community-builder disguised as a marketer. With a background in nonprofit engagement, digital strategy, and making things happen with tiny teams, she’s the founder of The Nonprofit Hive—a global nonprofit peer-connection platform—and the brains behind Community Hives, which helps organizations spark one-on-one conversations that actually go somewhere. Right now, she’s diving headfirst into scaling relational tech and dreaming up what’s next for human-first connection tools. When she’s not matchmaking nonprofit pros or geeking out on systems change, you’ll find her hiking with her kids, reading a good fiction book, or talking community like it’s a love language.  Contact Tasha: Email: tasha@thenonprofithive.com Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tasha-van-vlack/ Join the Nonprofit Hive: www.thenonprofithive.com   Interested in the difficult conversations course? Check it out here: https://www.myleadershippotential.com/trust Want to learn what kind of mind traps are sabotaging your communication and relationships with others? Go to https://www.mindfittery.com/befree to learn more.  Contact Chris: chris@myleadershippotential.com Contact Lucie: lucie@mindfittery.com or www.mindfittery.com    

How do you get the confidence to build something in public  In part 1, Chris Wong and Lucie Tesarova interview Tasha Van Vlack, the founder of the Nonprofit Hive, discussing the challenges and triumphs of building an international community. Tasha shares her journey of personal growth, the importance of vulnerability in leadership, and the necessity of transparency in fostering a supportive environment. The discussion highlights the evolution of community building, especially in the wake of COVID-19, and emphasizes the significance of peer-led learning and emotional intelligence in leadership roles.   What were our big takeaways? -        Building confidence is essential for creating international communities. -        Community building has become increasingly important post-COVID. -        Personal growth often accompanies the journey of community leadership. -        Vulnerability in leadership fosters trust and connection. -        Transparency helps in managing community expectations and feedback. -        Real connections are more valuable than perfect presentations. -        Embracing imperfection can lead to more authentic community engagement.   About Tasha  Tasha Van Vlack is a community-builder disguised as a marketer. With a background in nonprofit engagement, digital strategy, and making things happen with tiny teams, she’s the founder of The Nonprofit Hive—a global nonprofit peer-connection platform—and the brains behind Community Hives, which helps organizations spark one-on-one conversations that actually go somewhere. Right now, she’s diving headfirst into scaling relational tech and dreaming up what’s next for human-first connection tools. When she’s not matchmaking nonprofit pros or geeking out on systems change, you’ll find her hiking with her kids, reading a good fiction book, or talking community like it’s a love language.  Contact Tasha: Email: tasha@thenonprofithive.com Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tasha-van-vlack/   Contact Chris: myleadershippotential@gmail.com Contact Lucie: https://www.mindfittery.com/site/contact 

Join us for the second part of our conversation with Jevon Gondwe, who is a Leadership Transformation Architect and the founder of Influential Skills Company.  If you haven't heard the first part of our conversation on how to create high performing teams, or as Jevon says "Culture of Champions", make sure to listen it here.  Key Takeaways: Building a team requires clear communication and accountability. Role-playing can help illustrate effective conversation techniques. Creating a culture of candor is essential for team success. Leaders should set expectations early in the relationship. Feedback should be specific and objective to be effective. Personal growth is crucial for leaders to support their teams. Mistakes should be viewed as learning opportunities, not failures. Leaders must be aware of their team's challenges and pressures. Open dialogue can prevent misunderstandings and disengagement. Building trust takes time and consistent effort. About Jevon:Jevon Gondwe is a dynamic Leadership Transformation Architect and the founder of Influential Skills. His leadership insights have been featured in major media companies like Inc. Magazine and Training Industry, Inc. Through Jevon’s proprietary leadership framework Building a Culture of Champions is preparing team leaders for the new economy. Fighting against corporate disengagement, high turnover, and average work environments, Jevon is transforming leaders into catalysts for growth by helping them develop the mindset for personal growth, while building the crucial communication and relationship building skills to connect, inspire, and lead a championship team. His unique approach to leadership communication is forged from over 15 years of hands on experience, and the invaluable lessons from 3 college National Championships under two of the NCAA's winningest coaches of all time. This background instilled a mindset of excellence, humility, and servant leadership, which Jevon has shared to inspire over 30,000 professionals. His core offerings focus on the intersection of interpersonal skills, leadership, and team building, helping leaders boost engagement, retention, and performance, even through their most challenging team dynamics. Jevon doesn't teach theory, he's applied these proven methods across diverse industries. A proud husband and father, Jevon embraces his unique Malawian-American heritage to connect with diverse audiences and firmly believes success comes from consistently adding value to others, a philosophy he champions for all leaders. Connect with Jevon:https://www.influentialskills.com/ jevon@influentialskills.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/jevon-gondwe/  Connect with us:Email – tas.difficultconversations@gmail.comChris – www.linkedin.com/in/chriswonglmhcLucie – www.linkedin.com/in/lucietesarova

How do you build High-Performing Teams? What kind of skills and factors are essential for effective leadership? Join us for a conversation with Jevon Gondwe to hear his personal anecdotes and insights that highlight the transformative power of leadership in both personal and professional contexts. Takeaways: Effective communication enhances overall quality of life. Leadership has a ripple effect on individuals and teams. Servant leadership focuses on maximizing others' potential. Creating psychological safety is crucial for team growth. Personal growth is essential for effective leadership. Listening actively can bring out the best in others. Vision should inspire and engage team members. Real conversations are necessary for alignment and growth. Fear often prevents difficult conversations from happening. Leaders should empower individuals to take ownership of their roles. Chapters00:00 Building High-Performing Teams01:25 The Ripple Effect of Leadership05:04 Understanding Servant Leadership10:23 Essential Skills for Effective Leadership16:46 Aligning Team and Individual Visions21:00 Creating a Vision for Your Team24:00 Overcoming Fear in Difficult Conversations27:21 Personal Growth as a Leader About Jevon: Jevon Gondwe is a dynamic Leadership Transformation Architect and the founder of Influential Skills. His leadership insights have been featured in major media companies like Inc. Magazine and Training Industry, Inc. Through Jevon’s proprietary leadership framework Building a Culture of Champions is preparing team leaders for the new economy. Fighting against corporate disengagement, high turnover, and average work environments, Jevon is transforming leaders into catalysts for growth by helping them develop the mindset for personal growth, while building the crucial communication and relationship building skills to connect, inspire, and lead a championship team. His unique approach to leadership communication is forged from over 15 years of hands on experience, and the invaluable lessons from 3 college National Championships under two of the NCAA's winningest coaches of all time. This background instilled a mindset of excellence, humility, and servant leadership, which Jevon has shared to inspire over 30,000 professionals. His core offerings focus on the intersection of interpersonal skills, leadership, and team building, helping leaders boost engagement, retention, and performance, even through their most challenging team dynamics. Jevon doesn't teach theory, he's applied these proven methods across diverse industries. A proud husband and father, Jevon embraces his unique Malawian-American heritage to connect with diverse audiences and firmly believes success comes from consistently adding value to others, a philosophy he champions for all leaders. Connect with Jevon: https://www.influentialskills.com/ jevon@influentialskills.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/jevon-gondwe/  Connect with us: Email – tas.difficultconversations@gmail.com Chris – www.linkedin.com/in/chriswonglmhc Lucie – www.linkedin.com/in/lucietesarova   

How can you turn a crisis into an opportunity and rebuild trust? Join us for another episode of the Art & Science of Difficult Conversations, where we had a conversation with Scott Harvey, who has 20 years of experience in law enforcement as a Hostage Negotiator. This is part 2 of the episode, where we role-play a difficult conversation that many leaders face - talking with an employee who "survived" a wave of layoffs and is now demotivated, anxious, resentful, and scared about the future. How do you have that conversation? Tune in to find out. About Scott: With 20 years of experience in law enforcement as a Hostage Negotiator and over 18 years as a business owner, Scott Harvey has a deep understanding of what drives success. His career has included roles as a sergeant supervising officers, teaching thousands of D.A.R.E. classes, and delivering keynote speeches to hundreds of thousands of people. Scott's extensive experience has refined his ability to impart leadership skills, which he shares on dozens of stages each year. In 2023, Scott distilled his decades of communication expertise into his book, Silence Kills, which has already sold thousands of copies. As a business coach, Scott engages directly with entrepreneurs and leaders, challenging them to grow their businesses while maintaining balance in their personal lives and health. His unique style of personalized motivation continues to make a significant impact both on and off stage. Scott’s wife of over 27 years and their two grown daughters keep him grounded and inspired, providing real-life insights as he navigates the roles of husband, father, and entrepreneur. Contact Scott Harvey: https://speakingofharvey.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/speakerscottharvey/ https://www.facebook.com/speakerscottharvey  https://www.youtube.com/@SpeakingOfHarvey https://www.instagram.com/speakingofharvey     Contact us: Email – tas.difficultconversations@gmail.com Chris – www.linkedin.com/in/chriswonglmhc Lucie – www.linkedin.com/in/lucietesarova 

How can you turn a crisis into an opportunity and rebuild trust?  Join us for another episode of the Art & Science of Difficult Conversations, where we had a conversation with Scott Harvey, who has 20 years of experience in law enforcement as a Hostage Negotiator.    Key takeaways:  Crisis can be an opportunity to rebuild trust. Prevention is key in communication to avoid crises. Silence in leadership can communicate apathy. Building rapport is essential for effective communication. The service recovery paradox shows that resolving issues can enhance satisfaction. Emotions can hinder logical thinking during conversations. Calming techniques can help manage anxiety before difficult conversations. Anticipation of difficult conversations is often worse than the reality. Collaborative problem-solving leads to better outcomes. Open communication fosters a positive organizational culture. And don't miss part two of this interview that goes live next week, where we roleplay some difficult scenarios for you!  About Scott:  With 20 years of experience in law enforcement as a Hostage Negotiator and over18 years as a business owner, Scott Harvey has a deep understanding of whatdrives success. His career has included roles as a sergeant supervising officers,teaching thousands of D.A.R.E. classes, and delivering keynote speeches tohundreds of thousands of people. Scott's extensive experience has refined hisability to impart leadership skills, which he shares on dozens of stages each year.In 2023, Scott distilled his decades of communication expertise into his book,Silence Kills, which has already sold thousands of copies. As a business coach, Scott engages directly with entrepreneurs and leaders,challenging them to grow their businesses while maintaining balance in theirpersonal lives and health. His unique style of personalized motivation continues tomake a significant impact both on and off stage. Scott’s wife of over 27 years and their two grown daughters keep him groundedand inspired, providing real-life insights as he navigates the roles of husband,father, and entrepreneur.  Contact Scott Harvey:  https://speakingofharvey.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/speakerscottharvey/  https://www.facebook.com/speakerscottharvey  https://www.youtube.com/@SpeakingOfHarvey  https://www.instagram.com/speakingofharvey  Contact us: Email – tas.difficultconversations@gmail.comChris – www.linkedin.com/in/chriswonglmhcLucie – www.linkedin.com/in/lucietesarova  

Is it possible to talk about race and social justice in a productive way? Listen to our interview with Hilary Giovale to find out the answer to that question and more! We discuss the challenges with having these conversations, how vulnerability plays a role in sharing our personal stories, and how white individuals can confront their guilt and engage in difficult conversations about their heritage and responsibility. Agree? Disagree? Have a story to share? Let us know! About Hilary: Hilary Giovale is a mother, writer, community organizer, and facilitator who lives on Hopi, Diné, Apache, and Havasupai land in Flagstaff, Arizona. A ninth-generation American settler, she is descended from Celtic, Germanic, Nordic, and Indigenous peoples of Ancient Europe. Hilary seeks to follow Indigenous and Black leadership in support of human rights, environmental justice, and equitable futures. As an active reparationist, her work is guided by intuition, love, and relationships. She divests from whiteness and bridges divides with truth, healing, apology, and forgiveness. She is the author of Becoming a Good Relative: Calling White Settlers toward Truth, Healing, and Repair. Learn more about her work at goodrelative.com. Check out Hilary's Guide to Making a Personal Reparations Plan. The book Hilary mentioned is: My Grandmother's Hands: Racialized Trauma and the Pathway to Healing our Hearts and Bodies, by Resmaa Menakem. This page has some links to independent booksellers who carry Hilary's book. All the proceeds from book sales go to Decolonizing Wealth Project and Jubilee Justice. https://www.goodrelative.com/book Contact us: Email – tas.difficultconversations@gmail.comChris – www.linkedin.com/in/chriswonglmhcLucie – www.linkedin.com/in/lucietesarova

Is it possible to talk about race and social justice in a productive way? Listen to our interview with Hilary Giovale to find out the answer to that question and more! We discuss the challenges with having these conversations, how vulnerability plays a role in sharing our personal stories, and how white individuals can confront their guilt and engage in difficult conversations about their heritage and responsibility.  Agree? Disagree? Have a story to share? Let us know!  About Hilary:  Hilary Giovale is a mother, writer, community organizer, and facilitator who lives on Hopi, Diné, Apache, and Havasupai land in Flagstaff, Arizona.  A ninth-generation American settler, she is descended from Celtic, Germanic, Nordic, and Indigenous peoples of Ancient Europe.  Hilary seeks to follow Indigenous and Black leadership in support of human rights, environmental justice, and equitable futures.  As an active reparationist, her work is guided by intuition, love, and relationships.  She divests from whiteness and bridges divides with truth, healing, apology, and forgiveness.  She is the author of Becoming a Good Relative: Calling White Settlers toward Truth, Healing, and Repair.  Learn more about her work at goodrelative.com. Check out Hilary's Guide to Making a Personal Reparations Plan. The book Hilary mentioned is: My Grandmother's Hands: Racialized Trauma and the Pathway to Healing our Hearts and Bodies, by Resmaa Menakem. This page has some links to independent booksellers who carry Hilary's book.  All the proceeds from book sales go to Decolonizing Wealth Project and Jubilee Justice. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Difficult Conversations 03:30 Identity Transformation and Community Reactions 05:39 Engaging with Indigenous Communities 08:00 The Shift from Old to New Identity 11:00 Guilt and the Legacy of Colonialism 12:54 Navigating White Guilt in Conversations 15:33 The Power of Personal Storytelling 19:13 Vulnerability and Protection in Sharing Stories 22:39 Reconnecting with Ancestry and Identity 23:40 The Historical Context of Whiteness 29:02 Navigating Conversations with Conservative Family Members 29:48 Personal Reparations and Community Healing     Contact us:Email – tas.difficultconversations@gmail.comChris – www.linkedin.com/in/chriswonglmhcLucie – www.linkedin.com/in/lucietesarova  

Welcome to Season 3! Chris and Lucie are back with a whole new season, but we’re starting things off simple since Lucie’s tied up! In this episode, Chris delves into the importance of nonverbal communication and simplifies it, since it’s so misunderstood.  He talks about:  Why is it so important?  The 3 biggest misconceptions/myths about body language/nonverbal communication  The 1 simple thing to be aware of that can make a big difference What do you think? Contact us:Email – tas.difficultconversations@gmail.comChris – www.linkedin.com/in/chriswonglmhcLucie – www.linkedin.com/in/lucietesarova

NOTES:   One more week of rest!  In this week's compilation, we re-visit episodes on how to talk about politics, money issues, and marriage issues.   Season 3 starts next week!   Contact us:Email – tas.difficultconversations@gmail.comChris – www.linkedin.com/in/chriswonglmhcLucie – www.linkedin.com/in/lucietesarova

SHOW NOTES: More rest month!  In this week’s compilation episode, feedback is on the menu – specifically, how do you give feedback that sticks?  Chris and Lucie discuss five key elements that contribute to successful feedback and demonstrate how it could play out when an underperforming employee asks for a promotion they don’t qualify for. Takeaways  Effective feedback requires a structured approach.  Understanding employee motivations is crucial for feedback.  Specificity in feedback helps eliminate misunderstandings.  Coaching should accompany feedback for better outcomes.  Accountability structures are essential for follow-up.  Feedback should be seen as a supportive tool, not a punishment.  Managing emotions during feedback is key to effective communication.  Regular check-ins can help maintain accountability and progress. Contact us: Email – tas.difficultconversations@gmail.com Chris – www.linkedin.com/in/chriswonglmhc Lucie – www.linkedin.com/in/lucietesarova   

Trigger Warning: Suicide, Sexual AbuseIf you or someone you love is struggling with suicidal thoughts, please reach out for help:USA: 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline – call or text 988Canada: Call 1-1-833-456-4566 toll-free, anytime – or text 45645 between 4 pm and midnight EST.International Support info https://www.iasp.info/suicidalthoughts/ In this compilation episode, we are talking about a very difficult topic for many - suicide. Often, we avoid talking about it with someone else because of shame, or when someone mentions suicidal thoughts, we might want to cheer them up or change the topic. This compilation episode will equip you with practical, compassionate guidance on how to recognize when someone is in distress and how to have the conversations that could make all the difference. You will also hear Paula's story of grief, guilt, and healing that might give you understanding, compassion, and perhaps even your own healing. Thank you for your courage to have these difficult conversations and for caring. Email – tas.difficultconversations@gmail.com Chris – www.linkedin.com/in/chriswonglmhc Lucie – www.linkedin.com/in/lucietesarova