On episode 47 of A Chat with Uma, I sit down with my dear friend Jon Nelson—lived-experience mental health expert & longtime healthcare comms exec—whose decade of treatment-resistant depression nearly killed him before an experimental deep brain stimulation (DBS) surgery flipped the circuit & brought instant remission in 2022. Jon shares the unfiltered, brutal reality of suicidal depression & how anger became fuel for advocacy. We trace his decade of every failed treatment—while his wife & kids bore the invisible trauma of caregiving.

He breaks down the difference between sadness & clinical disease, the neurological reality of “choosing life,” & why suicidality is a symptom—not a character flaw. Mid-episode, his psychiatrist Dr. Martijn Figee joins to unpack their shared experience of navigating DBS. Equal parts remission, reclamation, and rebellion—Jon turns survival into a movement to pulverize the stigma of serious mental illness. And come back next week for a solo episode with Dr. Figee, deep-diving into the science of DBS!

Topics Discussed (+ Timestamps):

(00:00:00 ) Introduction & welcome to Jon!

(00:08:40 ) Where does Jon come from? Upbringing, background, formative years

(00:18:50 ) Dislocation at 16 → situational depression, honing empathy; college & NYC healthcare advertising years

(00:30:40 ) The descent: depression as cellular “poison,” initial denial, & suicidality as symptom—not weakness, drama, or moral failing

(00:49:30 ) The caregiver toll: bathtub breakdowns, kids’ confusion, insurance combat, financial strain

(00:57:30 ) A decade of failed interventions: 10+ meds, ketamine (IV & nasal), 36 TMS, 11 ECT (memory loss), residential & PHP/IOP cycles

(01:22:00 ) Absolute hopelessness, stigma, & the slim reason to stay

(01:28:40 ) Deep Brain Stimulation prep: trial entry, consent, mindset, surgical risks

(01:34:00 ) Switch flipped: activation, instant remission, and the shock of neutral daily life

(01:37:10 ) Relief & righteous anger: gratitude colliding with a decade of preventable suffering

(01:41:00 ) Dr. Martijn Figee, Jon's psychiatrist: translating “poison” affect into subcallosal cingulate circuit target

(01:48:10 ) Phenotype → target: differentiating negative affect circuitry from OCD loops, guiding lead (or TMS coil) placement

(01:52:30 ) Toward precision psychiatry: circuit diagnostics over trial‑and‑error pharmacology

(01:55:00 ) Pulverize The Stigma: public truth‑telling, rejecting “difficult to treat,” anger as disciplined fuel

(01:57:30 ) Centering caregivers: invisible labor, secondary trauma, & shared remission

(01:59:40 ) Advocacy blueprint: accountability for insurers, institutions, & language reform

(02:02:00 ) Redefining recovery as access to ordinary life & collective responsibility

Connect with Jon!

• ⁠⁠⁠⁠Website: Pulverize The Stigma⁠
• Instagram: ⁠⁠@PulverizeTheStigma⁠

• ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠
• ⁠Email: jon@pulverizethestigma.com⁠

Connect with Dr. Martijn Figee:

• ⁠Email: martijn.figee@mssm.edu⁠
• ⁠TRANSCEND Trial: DBS for treatment-resistant depression⁠
• ⁠DBS for OCD⁠

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