CNM 043: Financial Abuse: Signs and Strategies for Coping – with Tracy Malone
Description
Welcome to the show!
Today we’re talking with Tracy Malone of Narcissist Abuse Support all about financial abuse – the warning signs, how to protect yourself, and what to do if it’s happening to you.
Tracy herself is a victim of financial abuse by more than one abuser, in more than one way. It can take many forms and fashions, and be extremely costly – so let’s get educated.
(By the way, if you see an orange button right below this sentence, that means, I’m still looking for a few more responses for our podcast sponsorship survey. I’ve been asked to gather some basic demographic info from listeners, and it will take less thank a minute, I promise!)
Moving on, here’s my interview with Tracy!
Interview with Tracy Malone on Financial Abuse
Brian: Tracy, welcome to the show. We’re so glad to have you here today!
Tracy: Thank you so much for having me. It’s my pleasure. Let’s get right into this topic of financial abuse, something we’ve never talked about on the show before. We’re really interested to get your feedback on this.
You deal with a lot in the realm of narcissistic abuse and abuse in general, so it sounds like you have some interesting things to bring to the table that people might not be aware of. Let’s get into that a little bit.
My first question for you is…
Question: Let’s say that you suspect that somebody is abusing the finances in your house (and we’ll talk about what that looks like more in a second). If you think that you’re being wronged in terms of the money situation, what sort of advice do you have to confront the other person?
Tracy: Well, I would definitely be careful whom you approach with this information.
Obviously, you’re talking about an abuser here, and they generally don’t like to be found out. So, if you are suspecting that you are being financially abused, it is absolutely imperative that you create your own documentation. If you approach an abuser and accuse them of doing something, all they have to do is go in and change everything. If you don’t have documentation and proof, you’re out of luck because abusers tend to – as soon as they find out the gig is up – they start burning the trail behind them, so to speak.
It’s very important to make sure before you do that, that you have all the documentation that you need and then approach it in a way that is non-confronting to them, express your concerns or ask them for verification of things. You’re going to get a different story if you are attacking them. If they’re on the defense, you’re going to very quickly become the enemy. So, by approaching it with more of an attitude of, ‘I want to learn more about this’, they don’t see the method behind your madness, and you get more information out of them to help yourself.
Question: When you talk about documenting, are you talking about having a journal where you’re recording different transactions? Are you talking about saving credit card statements, receipts, etc.? What do you mean when you say ‘document’ exactly?
Tracy: I’m talking about documenting as if you were going through a divorce. In other words, yes, all your statements, all the information that you can find about money coming in or money going out.
There are so many different types of financial abuse. But if you are married to someone and you’ve got joint accounts, if you’ve got retirement statements, you need to have those statements. If you are if you’re locked out of these accounts and you had a hundred thousand dollars in your retirement, but now you can’t even access it without having the proof that you had a hundred thousand dollars in there before they started to muddle with it, you have no leg to stand on.
Question: In terms of confronting them when the time comes, is there any more detail about how to do that? Should you have a third party in the room? Is there a certain script that you should follow or words that you should use? Anything else to say about that?
Tracy: I think that it’s hard to have a script because every situation is different. So, if we’re talking about someone just coming in and taking the money out of accounts and things like that, you have to understand before you confront them what the repercussions could be. If you’re confronting someone that you think has just stolen all your life savings – yes, get a third party involved. Bring those records to a lawyer. Again, the documentation is your only hope of any kind of redemption to getting money back.
Question: What can you do if you come to a point where you confront them and maybe they’re not cooperative, and so you need to take matters into your own hands because they’re not cooperating. Are there fallout ramifications that you should prepare for? What if it doesn’t go well when you try to take control of the situation?
Tracey: Well first of all, go into it not thinking the worst, but preparing for the worst. If you go into a situation talking with an abuser about financial dealings that you don’t have a handle on before, but now you’re starting to understand and want more information on, they’re probably going to be very defensive. And if you go into this situation unprepared, what could happen if you start to think, ‘Okay, I’m going to say that I want to know where this money is’, picture them – they’re on the defense and they’re going to fight back like an angry dog.
So, when you’re in that situation, if you can analyze it in your mind beforehand, then you’re prepared with an answer. ‘If they say this, then I can do that.’ Don’t go in saying, “I’m going to send you to jail”, and all of that unless you’ve got some good evidence and unless you’ve got some really good support, meaning maybe the police, maybe a domestic violence agency that can stand behind you and help you with this situation. It’s never going to be easy, and they’re not going to take it well.
Question: Suppose they don’t take it well, they resist, and they make it a really big challenge for you. Is there any sort of legal recourse that we have when it comes to the finances?
Tracy: The best thing is to call the police because these things are actually crimes. The caveat to that is – and this has happened to so many people in my community – when you’re married to someone and you’ve legally given them rights to your accounts, they have the right to do whatever they want to it. Even if they’ve taken it and spent it, the police can’t do a thing because you’re married. So, it’s really important to understand that and get agencies involved. Don’t do it alone because abusers can definitely turn on you, especially if you’ve just discovered a crime.
Question: With that in mind, how can you test whether a potential partner has the ability or the potential to abuse finances once you’re in a committed relationship. Are there some telltale signs that you need to look out for to go on the alert?
Tracy: Well, I think you need to understand the different types of financial abuse because it’s not as simple as just taking your money out of the 401k. They can be stealing money all along, emptying accounts, moving accounts, hiding money, hiding assets. There are a lot of the puzzle pieces you really have to pay attention to. For example, stealing a victim’s inheritance; if you get money from an inheritance and you commingle it into your joint account, it’s gone. You have no rights to it. They can steal it all, and there’s nothing you can do.
Any money that gets comingled like an inheritance or your 401k, if they have access to it, it’s half theirs. Now, that doesn’t mean that they can’t steal all of it because again, you’re married and there’s nothing the police can do. So, knowing that you’re going to get an inheritance, keep it separate. If you own a house, don’t put their name on it even if you’re married. Be very cautious and protect yourself when you’re looking at these potential risks.
Abusers very often control assets and access to money. So, even though they might say, “Hey, you take care of the kids and I’ll go to work,” that can be a form of financial abuse because the victim becomes basically unable to work and they become reliant on someone to give them all the money that they need to run the house, to buy food, to buy clothes, and even to escape. If you have no access to the money, you can’t escape an abusive relationship. It’s all about control.
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