Welcome to episode 50!

In this episode we have an incredible guest on the show – someone I met earlier this year.

I’m especially excited about this guest because she has answers to the most frequently asked questions that I get.

Her name is Beverly Buncher, author of BALM: The Loving Path To Family Recovery (link at the bottom of this post), and Beverly has been able to personally discover, systemize, and then teach and coach other people strategies and tactics for precisely how to navigate relationships with difficult people; people who may be substance users, mentally ill family members, people with personality or behavioral disorders, or people who are just plain difficult to relate to.

Her philosophy picks up where many philosophies and programs tend to leave us feeling a little hopeless or powerless. We’re often left in a place where we know we shouldn’t enable bad behavior, and we want to stay away from other people’s drama. So sometimes we conclude that all we can do is set boundaries, keep our distance, cross our fingers and hope for the best.

But Beverly’s philosophy picks up and kicks into high gear right at this point. Her philosophy suggests that there are very specific things that we can do to contribute to the recovery and better behavior of our loved ones. To become healthier and more peaceful ourselves, and possibly even influence our loved ones to do the same.

We’ll be doing a 4-part mini-series with Beverly, and I’m very excited for what you’re about to hear. Beverly’s work has been a spark of new found hope and change in many people’s lives, and who knows, maybe it will be for you too.

So, let’s have a listen. Here’s my first interview with Beverly Buncher of Family Recovery Resources.

Interview on The Loving Path with Beverly Buncher

Brian: Beverly, welcome to the show. It’s so nice to have you with us today.

Beverly: Thank you so much, Brian. It’s so good to be here.

Brian: Yeah. I’ve been very excited about interviewing you. We have a whole mini-series coming up with you in three of our episodes and then one of your students is going to be in one of the episodes as well so we’ll have four in total.

I’m very excited about it. I had a chance to read your book in the last couple of months. We’ve chatted in the past and decided that this would be a great opportunity since we have so much overlap in what we’re doing.

Questions: I wonder if we could just start by having you tell us your story. What’s happened in your life that led you to the work that you’re doing now?

Beverly: As is often the case, the things that hurt the most can sometimes be the things that help the most. For me, I think the thing that happened to me as a child was my dad was emotionally abusive and I had a cousin who abused me. I was vulnerable. I was a real smart, a very empathic kid, and extremely sensitive. In fact, the big line around my family was, “You’re too sensitive.”

As I grew, some of the things that happened to me as a child started to haunt me. Around that time that I was dealing with all of the inner turmoil that I have, my sister was struggling with her own use disorder. I was dealing with a use disorder of over-eating and she was dealing with her use disorder. It was just very interesting around our house.

At a certain point, we grew up, she got an apartment, and I got an apartment across the hall from her. I was in a twelve-step program at that time for my over-eating. I noticed at night that she was constantly going back and forth in her apartment. I could hear it. We were on the third floor walk-up of the big-old house. I thought, “Wow, she’s probably going to go into interior design. She’s spending the whole night walking back and forth and moving furniture around.”

One night she knocked on my door and she said, “Listen, I’ve got to tell you something. I have a problem and I am solving it.”

I said,“What’s your problem?”

She said, “I’ve been using drugs and I’m going to get some help and I’m now in AA.” She joined her twelve-step program and I thought, ‘Well then, I need to go to Al-Anon.’  I went to Al-Anon meetings and I thought, ‘This is great. I could handle an alcoholic.’ The fact is I had always dated alcoholics. I had always been someone who attracted guys who struggled in different areas of their lives just as I was struggling in different areas of my life.

There I was in Al-Anon, and about a year down the road I met my husband. In fact, a friend fixed us up. She said, “Would you like to go on a date?”

I said, “I’d be happy to go on a date with him but I have an Al-Anon meeting tonight.”

We went on our date and he picked me up and he said, “My mom’s in Al-Anon.”

I said, “Wow, are you recovered?” (thinking that he must be sober for some reason), and he said, “Oh, no. I’m crazy as ever.” That started our journey together.

I tell the story in greater detail in my book, but I married someone who was actively using drugs and alcohol. I was in Al-Anon trying to figure out what to do. Of course people told me, “Get rid of him.” I told people that I was marrying the guy, and a lady at Al-Anon meeting said to me, “What’s wrong with you? You must have the lowest self-esteem.”

I looked to her and I said, “Yeah. And your point is?” (laughs) But I love the guy, he was the nicest alcoholic I ever met. That’s what I told people and that’s what I felt.

We got married and very soon after we got married, within two days, I realized that was in much deeper than I understood because this was a very, very sick person. He had real problems. He needed substances in order to get through a day; in order to survive. Of course, I didn’t know this at that time but his brain was telling him that he absolutelyneeded substances more than anything else to survive. I needed to learn how to cope with this. Every day I would go back and forth, “Should I stay? Should I go? Should I stay? Should I go?” My journey was one of figuring out what I wanted to do and when I decided to stay, how I was going to be loving and be someone who contributed to his ability to get well while also taking good care of myself.

Brian: Thank you for that introduction. That tees up the story for the listeners. I’m positive that a large percentage of people listening will identify with that, having somebody in their life who has substance use issues and/or maybe other types of issues that are causing friction and wondering, ‘Should I stay or should I go?’, and wanting to stay but not knowing how to stay and have a healthy relationship.

Let’s unpack this story a lot more and move forward a little bit. After you realized the situation that you were in (how ‘sick’ your husband was), you eventually went on to learn some techniques and skills to deal with the situation, and really became a pioneer in dealing with this type of situation. That led you to create what’s called the BALM which stands for Be A Loving Mirror.

Questions: Can you help us understand with this principle of BALM, what are what you call The Seven C’s of BALM?

Beverly: The seven C’s of BALM actually emerged out of Al-Anon. The process that you described of realizing that I had a problem and figuring out how to help my husband happened rather quickly. Within nine months of us getting married, he got recovered, went to meetings, and told everyone it was because of me. Earlier than that, move it back a bit, I learned in Al-Anon the four C’s; you didn’t cause his addiction, you can’t control it, you can’t cure it, but you don’t have to contribute to it.

In those days, the fourth C– you don’t have to contribute to it – was the one I heard most loudly and it was said a lot back then. Over the years, I noticed that fading away because my belief is that what happened was divorce became so easy for people that they look at this terrible situation they’re in and they think, ‘I don’t need this, I’m out of here. I didn’t cause it, I can’t control it, I can’t cure it. I’m out.’

I didn’t want to leave. I was a newlywed. I love my husband and I learned how to contribute to recovery through almost hidden techniques in Al-Anon that you had to stick around for a long time to learn. But I dug deep, I had a wonderful sponsor, and I got a lot of help. My husband got sober within nine months and we had many, many good years together.

Fast forward, I’d say about twelve years later, we were both doing really great. We had great careers, and things started to unravel, and they unraveled slowly. They say that anything you give up your recovery for will eventually take your recovery away from you. That’s what happened with us. We became really successful in our careers and eventually both of us relapsed; first me, then him. Then I was the one who sort of pulled it back together and I looked at those four C’s; didn’t cause it, can’t control it, can’t cure it, don’t have to contribute to it.

When I redid all the things that I learned how to do and he got well again, that was around the time my husband actually had his big relapse after about eighteen years of sobriety. I was in a relapse also. I got well first. (That often happens, the family gets well first and then the loved one.) I was a high school principal, became a coach, and developed the BALM. The BALM eventually had seven C’s and here’s how they go; you didn’t cause your loved ones SUD (substance use disorder), you can’t control it, you can’t cure it – we take that fourth C (you don’t hav