In this episode of Elevator People, PJ Simmons sits down with Kody Dahl, Creative Director at Whiteboard, for a conversation about the tension between creativity and the ever-present pressure of metrics.

They explore how “measureship” — leading strictly by the numbers — can flatten creative work, why beauty and meaning still matter in a data-driven world, and how businesses can balance risk and differentiation without losing sight of the humans they serve.

From the inspiration behind a stunning short film to the practical ways creative teams navigate client demands, this episode is a deep dive into the heart of modern creative work. Whether you’re a designer, strategist, marketer, or entrepreneur, you’ll find plenty of insight (and maybe a little encouragement) for working with purpose in a measured world.