So much of modern culture emphasizes success, hard work, and ambition. But what if we don’t conquer every problem or reach every mountaintop? How do you live with the hunger for more while letting yourself have limits and be tired and say no and shut it down too?

In this conversation, Kate and Emma Gannon discuss:

• Why ambition isn’t necessarily a bad thing


• How Emma reacted to a season of severe burnout and what wisdom she has for all of us


• How bucket lists can inadvertently place us in a game we are never going to win (Psst… It’s okay to simmer down a bit) 

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

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