Rob- Introduction-

Welcome to episode 184 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Perhaps you’re well trained , or maybe you’ve become curious about self defense. I’m Rob Morse and whatever your reason, I’m glad you found us today. We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Tony Simon. Tony and I have been recording together for four years.

Tony- Hi, Rob. My goodness, you’re old. I’ve been at SHOT show, 2A4E.

Rob- We received two more ratings on iTunes this week (134/81). Please go to the iTunes store where you subscribe to podcasts and leave a comment and give us some stars. That tells new listeners this show is worth their time.

Tony- We’ll talk about recent examples where gun owners were in a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? We have links back to the original news article in our show notes. Our first story took place last week in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Rob- Are you armed at work?

It’s about 5 in the evening when two men rush into your coin and jewelry shop. They’re wearing masks and shouting at you. They have guns in their hands and their guns are pointed at you. They tell you to open the cash register, and they move toward you.

You’re armed. You shoot at your attackers. They turn and run, but they also shoot you in the arm.

Another customer walks into your shop and calls 911 for you. You’re 71 years old.

Tony, what did our defender do correctly?

Tony- Our defender’s self defense started months ago, or maybe years ago. He found a gun and a holster that fit him, and he wore them. I say that because lots of my students kept an unloaded gun on the shelf where it was safe, but not useful. Our defender faced two armed attackers, and he did a pretty good job of avoiding a gunfight. Unfortunately, our defender was injured as he defended himself.

Rob- This sort of attack happens very often?

Tony- Retail business with cash and valuables. Street access. Multiple armed attackers against a single older defender. Every day, from a coffee shop to the local church.

Rob- What do you tell your students to do in their small business?

Tony- Have the right gun for you.

A small gun is easier to conceal, and it is usually lighter, so you can move it faster if you have limited upper body strength. That small size firearm is often harder to shoot accurately and harder to shoot quickly because the force of the shot moves the gun around. You also need a comfortable holster that you’ll wear every day.

Rob- not too big, and not too small.

Tony- I want you to have training and practice that goes beyond shooting paper at the range.

Rob- Firearms safety and marksmanship are the first thing we learn. You want us to learn more than that.

Tony- I do. Sometimes the attackers will run when they see you’re armed. Sometimes your attackers will run when you shoot  at them or shoot them. Some attackers will keep trying to hurt you until you stop them. Our defender didn’t stop his attackers quickly enough to avoid getting hurt.

Rob- As instructors, we’re teaching our students the wrong thing when we teach them to stand still and shoot. When we teach them that way, we’re also teaching them to stand still and get shot.

Tony- That is a tradeoff. Your first shots will be standing still so we can make sure you’re safe. We start with a plastic gun, then an unloaded gun, then we shoot a few shots and reholster. Square range practice. Move and shoot vs shoot on the move.. But move. I want you to move so you’re harder to hurt. I want you to go to the range and practice so you can hit your target immediately after you moved.

Rob- It is hard to hit a target as I’m moving, but I can present my firearm on the move. What is dry practice?

Rob- Is there more?

Tony- We’ll come back to this in a later story, so let’s go on. Our second story happened in Willow, Alaska.

Rob- How armed are you after midnight?

You’re asleep. It is after midnight when you hear gunshots. Worse than that, you hear the impact as bullets hit your house. You get your rifle, look out the window, and find someone shooting at you and your house. You shoot back and the gunfire stops. Now, you call the police.

The police find your wounded attacker at your neighbors house. Your drunk attacker was taken to jail and held without bond. Both you and your attacker were using rifles. News reports are not clear if the male attacker and the female defender knew each other before the attack. It also isn’t clear how far away the attacker was when he was shooting at you.

I’m glad our defender was armed.

Tony- She was armed, and she did a lot of things right.

She didn’t deny what was happening. Until you’ve been shot at, your brain tells you a story. “That loud noise can’t be gunshots. That can’t be someone shooting at me.”

Our brain wants to think in the ways that worked in the past, but that blinds us when something unusual happens. Our defender recognized the threat and defended herself.

She defended herself against an unknown number of attackers at night. She called the police when it was safe to do so. She made a report and signed the complaint.

Rob- This happened in a small town in Alaska at midnight. It is cold outside and the neighbors where you might run are a distance away.

Tony- This wasn’t Hammonton, New Jersey in the summertime, but I like the way you’re thinking. Is stepping away from the problem your best defense? Sometimes it is. It might be moving to a basement, or moving upstairs.

Rob- Sometimes we are attacked by crazy strangers. Sometimes we’re attacked by crazy people we know.

Tony- It is usually people we know, but not all the time.

Let’s talk about the elephant in the room. We have tens of millions of people who carry concealed, so there are local training courses where you can learn to defend yourself with a handgun. There are also courses that teach you to defend yourself with a rifle or shotgun because those tools are more effective for home defense. Those tools let us be more accurate at a longer distance. I can put a red-dot sight or a laser on a rifle, so inexperienced shooters can quickly learn to shoot, and shoot accurately, particularly at night.

Rob- My average handgun student who is shooting quickly can hit a paper plate at 10 yards. The average rifle student with a red dot or a laser can hit a paper plate at 30 to 40 yards when they are shooting quickly. Is that what you’ve seen?

Tony-  A long gun is usually easier to shoot for most people. This is due to the amount of contact between the shooter and the gun. Both hands, your shoulder and your cheek. As opposed by just one or two hands with a handgun. 

If you retreat to a safe place, have a phone and a flashlight waiting for you there. Also have a piece of paper where you’ve written your address so you can read it to the police.

Rob- I’ll forget my address?

Tony- If you are frightened enough, yes you will. You also want your lawyer’s phone number, and the numbers of emergency contacts, so put that on your information card too.

Our third story happened in Santa Clarita, California.

Rob- First this message from DRGO

Rob- First this message from Doctors for responsible gun ownership, DRGO.us

Rob- Are you armed at work?

You’re behind the counter at your liquor store. It is after dark when another customer comes in. This customer tells you to give him the money in the cash register, and he points his gun at you.

You’re armed. You shoot your attacker several times until he drops his gun. Unfortunately, your attacker shoots you in the leg before he falls. You crawl out of the store where a police officer treats you. EMTs arrive and take you to the hospital. It takes a while to get the security videos to the police.

Again, our defender was armed when there was no time to call fo