Rob- Introduction-

Welcome to episode 263 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We’re glad you found us if you’re well trained.. and also if you’re still learning about armed defense. I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by firearms instructor Heather Reeves. How have you been, Heather?

<figure id="attachment_1156" aria-describedby="caption-attachment-1156" style="width: 495px" class="wp-caption aligncenter"><figcaption id="caption-attachment-1156" class="wp-caption-text">Heather Reeves</figcaption></figure>

Heather- Hi, Rob. I’ve been training and teaching and enjoy the downtime that accompanies the holidays.

How about you?

Rob- I’m over Covid. During our downtime, I also noticed that we have 14 hundred followers on Facebook. Thanks to our listeners for that.

Each week, we post the stories from our podcast on our webpage, and also at Ammoland. Then I expand one of the stories into a full length article. That article becomes the Armed Citizen Column at Ammoland Shooting Sports News. James left a comment on the podcast facebook page and called it a great article.

Thank you, James.

Harold said he is listening to the old podcasts in order. He thought a gunfight would be like the OK corral, but he has slowly changed his mind as we bring him new stories.

Thank you Harold. Good thinking on your part.

We also received a new rating and a new comment on iTunes (is 269, 152). PyroJames said he started listening on a long trip. Now he and his family listen each week as part of their training program.

PJ, your comment means a lot because that is how I hoped the podcast would be used. Thank you for taking care of your family.

Our listeners are our salesmen, so please go to the iTunes store where you subscribe to podcasts. We reach more listeners if you leave us a rating and let new gun owners know why you listen.

Heather- Here in the US, we defend ourselves with a firearm thousands of times a day. We study a few recent examples to see what we can learn. The links back to the original news articles are on our podcast webpage.

Our first story took place last week in Chicago, Illinois.

Rob- First story- Are you armed in public?

You saw the advertisement online. The seller has some shoes you want at a price you’re willing to pay. You go to the meeting point after work. You meet the seller. He asks to see the money before he shows you the shoes. You reach into your pocket to show him the cash. As you take your hand out of your pocket the seller shoots you.

You own a gun. You have your Illinois Firearms Owners Identification Card in your wallet right next to your concealed carry permit. You’re armed tonight. You present your gun. You shoot your attacker as you back away. You get into your car and try to drive away, but can’t drive. You call 911 for help. You give the police a description of your attacker.

You’re taken to the hospital for treatment of a gunshot wound to your shoulder. Police arrest your attacker at the hospital when he seeks treatment for a gunshot wound to his hand. You are not charged with a crime, but you never did get the shoes.

Heather- I like that our defender was armed in Chicago, and that isn’t easy. He was intentional about his personal safety. He defended himself even though he was hit with a surprise attack. He moved to safety, and then he called for help. 

Rob- I know there are things you’d like us to do if we buy and sell online.

Heather- Oh yes. Drug dealers meet in a park after dark, so don’t do that. I looked it up, and there were frequent attacks in this park. Make your exchanges at a police station or a hotel lobby that has video surveillance. Do the exchange on your terms, you name the place and time so that you have the upper hand in knowing the area and circumstances of the exchange.

Rob- Our defender presented his gun from concealment in the winter time. You live up north. Talk to me about drawing your gun in the winter.

Heather- The good news is that the defender had just opened his coat to reach the money that was in his pocket. The bad news is up in these parts, your concealment draw has to take into consideration your layers. Once you’ve taken a course where time is spent on the concealed draw (I recommend one where they are going to go over open front garments and closed front garments), then you can work with your other awkward clothing in a dry fire situation from inside your home. You may need to practice taking your gloves off, or find a pair of gloves that will allow you to access your firearm. You may need to make a concession on coat wearing, layers, and more. I have a really long thick trench coat. While I love it, I have spent a lot of time realizing that if I really need to bundle up it takes me MUCH longer than normal to get to my firearm. (lay out the classes, then talk about working around a heavy coat/gloves)

The good thing is that the car was warm so the defender wasn’t wearing gloves when he was attacked.

Rob- When do your students start carrying a loaded firearm under their clothing in public?

Heather- Not so fast. Let’s learn how to handle a firearm safely. Then we learn how to hit a target. Then we learn how to present from an outside the waistband holster. Then we move the holster inside the waistband and under a cover garment.

Rob- Do you talk to your students about making on-line sales and meeting strangers?

Heather- While it’s not a specific talking point, I do tend to bring it up anytime we are talking about safety strategies. Primarily because stories like this are becoming more and more common as individuals are trying to sell directly to someone they have never met.

Rob- Anything else?

Heather- I think I’ll save some for the other stories. Our second defensive gun use happened in Yakima, Washington.

Rob- Second Story- Are you armed in your car as you drive?

It is either a late lunch or an early dinner. You’re sitting in your car eating some fast food before you go shopping for groceries at Walmart. Your girlfriend is sitting next to you and her teenage daughter is sitting in the back seat. It is about 4pm when a stranger pulls open your driver’s side door and points a gun at you. He tells you to give him your money and get out of the car. You are armed. You take off your seat belt. You move to get out of the car. As you turn you present your concealed firearm and shoot your attacker striking him in the chest and the neck. Your attacker turns away and you stop shooting. You yell for everyone to get back in your car. You drive across the street and call the police.

Police take your statement. They interview you, your girlfriend, and her daughter separately at the police station. You are released and not charged.

Your attacker survived because an Emergency Medical Team was shopping at Walmart and heard your shots.

Heather- Thank goodness that our defender was armed. He recognized an unexpected threat. Give that some weight, because there is a real possibility of sitting there with your mouth full of fries, a hamburger in one hand and a drink in the other, and mumbling, “say what?” when there is a gun in your face. The good news is that the defender used the robber’s commands as an excuse to take off his seatbelt and to turn his body toward the door, and to free his firearm. The frightening part is that he had his family right behind him. He defended them very well. In a fraction of a second he delivered two shots that stopped his attacker. Then he got out of there so his family was safe. Once they were in a safe area, he stopped and called 911 so he could report the crime. That keeps him from being reported as